Revenue Rehab: It's like therapy, but for marketers
April 26, 2023

The Art of the Scrappy ABM: How to Achieve Big Results Without Big Ad Spend

This week our host, Brandi Starr, is joined by Mason Cosby, Director of Demand Generation at Sales Assembly. Mason specializes in building Scrappy ABM programs on low budgets that drive high impact. Serving as the Marketing Lead at numerous...

This week our host, Brandi Starr, is joined by Mason Cosby, Director of Demand Generation at Sales Assembly.

Mason specializes in building Scrappy ABM programs on low budgets that drive high impact. Serving as the Marketing Lead at numerous boutique size, bootstrapped businesses, Mason has sourced over $2.5M in the past 2 years, driving an 8X ROI.

Mason Cosby creates no-nonsense practical marketing execution that drives revenue on which he posts daily content on LinkedIn.

In this week’s episode of Revenue Rehab, on the couch Brandi and Mason will tackle: The Art of the Scrappy ABM: How to Achieve Big Results Without Big Ad Spend.

Bullet Points of Key Topics + Chapter Markers:

  • Topic #1 What is Scrappy ABM? [06:41] In the basic sense, scrappy account based marketing (ABM) is a no-frills version of traditional ABM. “Most b2b tech companies that I know, or b2b companies in general, have a CRM, they've got some form of marketing automation, they have the ability to get a list somehow, some way”, Mason says, “so when I think about it, that's what I'm getting to is [that] it's accessible. And it's not it is not cost prohibitive”.
  • Topic #2 Podcasts, LinkedIn: Tools for Reaching Targeted Accounts [24:17] “So if you remember I said CRM, marketing automation and some way to build a list”, says Mason. Once you’ve got your tools for targeting accounts sorted, Mason cites multiple ways to build your lists.
  • Topic #3 Encountering Roadblocks to Scrappy ABM [29:11] Mason encourages listeners to focus on direction rather than the details of the ‘how’. For example, when he bumped up against resistance to building a podcast, he decided to start doing it on his own, which resulted in the company he worked for benefiting hugely at little risk to him. Which then resulted in buy-in from that organization as they could see the value, illustrating his message, that there are multiple ways to reach these goals.

So, What's the One Thing You Can Do Today?

Mason’s ‘one thing’ is simple: “Build your list”, says Mason, it’s the critical first step.

Buzzword Banishment:

Mason’s Buzzword to Banish is the expression ‘driving demand’. “We’re doing this [thing] to drive demand. And it's like, okay, what does that mean? And then you get hit with that word salad” he says. Instead, Mason urges, let’s talk about what we do and then we'll get more to the actual point.


Get in touch with Mason Cosby on:

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Intro VO  00:05

Welcome to Revenue Rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita Brandi Starr

Brandi Starr  00:33

Hello, hello hello and welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today, I am joined by Mason Cosby. Mason serves as the Director of demand generation at sales assembly. Mason specializes in building scrappy ABM programs on low budgets that Dr. High impact serving as the marketing lead at numerous boutique bootstrapped businesses, Mason has sourced over 2.5 million in the past two years driving an impressive 8x ROI. Welcome to Revenue Rehab, Mason, your session begins now.

Mason Cosby  01:16

Brandy, I cannot tell you how excited I am to be here today. And to get the opportunity to kind of decompress some of my revenue. frustrations.

Brandi Starr  01:28

Well, that's why we come to the couch. You know, I say it's like therapy, but for marketers. So I am excited to have you here. I had mentioned before I've followed you on LinkedIn for quite some time. And this is surprisingly the first time that we've actually met. So I feel like we're old friends because I you know, follow all your content. So if you're not already following Mason, definitely, you know, look him up on LinkedIn, we'll link to him in the show notes. But great person on LinkedIn to follow for great information. But before we dive into our topic, I like to break the ice with a little Woosah moment that I call buzzword. banishment. So tell me what buzzword would you like to get rid of forever.

Mason Cosby  02:19

It's going to be ironic, given my job title, but I actually would love to get rid of the buzzword of just driving demand. Again. I know it's gonna feel ironic. But I just one of the one of the things that I talked about, actually, my interview with sales assembly, I started this role. About two months ago, I was very intentional to not use any jargon or any buzzwords because I was speaking to an executive team. And I just feel like so many people right now are just kind of putting together the overall b2b word salad under the umbrella. That is we're doing this to drive demand. And it's like, Okay, what does that mean? And then you get hit with that word salad again. So I just think if we can get rid of the umbrella term, and actually like, talk about what we do, we'll get more to the actual point.

Brandi Starr  03:10

Yeah, cuz it has gotten to the point where it does carry so many different meanings. And I can't remember which episode it was. But I was talking to someone and they were saying something about demand. And I went directly to that top of funnel ad spend, you know, search all of those things, not because that's the actual definition. But that's the most common definition. And, you know, he was really talking about the whole infrastructure of demand generation and all of it. And, you know, I had to pause for a second because I was like, I've actually lost like, what the definition is not gonna slap myself on the hand, because I'm like, I know better like that. It's not just, you know, all the top of funnel efforts of driving attention or attracting people. So I am with you there. umbrella terms, in general, usually tend to, you know, lose their impact. Oh, yeah. So now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to Revenue Rehab today?

Mason Cosby  04:18

Well, another jargony buzzword is Account Based Marketing. And I just think so many marketers have lost the point when it comes to Account Based Marketing. And they either go one of two directions, they either think it's just ads. So they're just running ads, and they run it up against a list or they think it's sales. And the reality is, it's it's neither. And I'm a firm believer, this idea that Account Based Marketing is less of a strategy and it's more of the appropriate mindset that b2b marketers need to be taking as they think about how do we actually functionally grow Oh, a business. That's why I'm here today.

Brandi Starr  05:03

Okay, yeah, and I agree with you like, it really is a mindset because if you look at b2b companies, there are some that really have an account based mindset. They are like, these are the people we want to go after for these reasons. And you know, I have one client, they have a target account list. And if the accounts not on that list, they do not care at all, like, that's great that they went to this webinar, or downloaded this white paper, like, you know, good for them, we got great content, we don't care. See, that is an account based mindset, like, these are our people. The fact that you sell to accounts, does not mean that you're, you know, in that account based mindset, like if you're trying to get all of the accounts or you know, whoever you can attract, that's not ABM. So I'm definitely with you there. And I want to come back to I love the term scrappy ABM. Because I think that is a nuance to how you approach ABM but before we jump into that, I believe in setting intentions, they give us focus, they give us purpose, and most important, it gives our audience and understanding of what they should expect from our discussions. So tell me, what's your best intention for the discussion.

Mason Cosby  06:23

What I hope people get from this conversation is that ABM is a highly accessible and highly effective strategy that you can start to run today for like $30 a month.

Brandi Starr  06:41

Okay, you know, marketing budgets are currently tight with, you know, some of the economic uncertainty another buzzword, and so 30 bucks, you know, a month or 30 bucks a day like, definitely feels doable. So understanding that this is an option. And I think that that is key, because when I have talked to some clients in the past, where ABM could be a strong play for them, it is always the assumption of, we don't have the infrastructure, the resources, the team, the budget, like, we got just got a, you know, go one, two, as many as possible. And so let's jump back and first talk about what do you use the term scrappy ABM? What does that really mean?

Mason Cosby  07:30

Yeah, so I mean, I view scrappy ABM as running an account based program without an ABM platform without a gifting platform without this intent data without really much. The programs that I run that have been most successful, only really had a CRM, marketing automation. And then the ability to get a target account last, outside of those pieces of technology, which even that you could argue is not even super necessary, if you are super, super low budget, but like most b2b tech companies that I know, or b2b companies in general, have a CRM, they've got some form of marketing automation, they have the ability to get a list somehow, some way. So when I think about it, that's what I'm getting to is it's accessible. And it's not it is not cost prohibitive.

Brandi Starr  08:26

Okay. So I love that. Because whether you're a small entity or a huge enterprise, I think anything that you can do with the basics is has a higher likelihood of, you know, getting accepted as an approach. Because it's, you know, path of least resistance, and opportunity for success. So when you're going in and wanting to do something different, and it doesn't require a whole or you know, org restructure and new budgets, etc. That's always a win. But tell me, what can we really get on, you know, 30 bucks, like how, you know, that seems like they're scrappy. And then there's, can we really do something with lunch money?

Mason Cosby  09:11

Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad you asked. I'm so sorry. I actually lied, it's $32 a month. It's

Brandi Starr  09:18

just blew the bank.

Mason Cosby  09:21

You can get a podcast hosting platform called Spreaker. For $7 a month that gets you 100 hours. And then you can get it to like stream yard. That is $25 a month. And that's not even on annualized contracts. If you've really wanted to commit the dollars you can, you can get a slight discount on that monthly rate. But again on a month to month contract $7 For podcast hosting $25 for live streaming, and the idea is relatively simple. You invite your target accounts onto a podcast and you make your target accounts and those decision makers You're the hero of a conversation. You focus all on them on their incredible ways in which they're growing their business are the ways, again, you want to kind of tie it back to your business as well. So when I ran this at an agency, we were talking about marketing growth strategies. So, again, what are the strategies that you're running today? And then also, you ask the questions around what are the challenges you're running into. And essentially, what you can do as a, as a business leader, is kind of run a pseudo discovery call, framed as a podcast episode. What you end up doing is building a one to one relationship with your target accounts. And the other thing is, if you can start to get really highly influential individuals on the show as well, within your market, your target accounts may also listen to the show. So again, that's a more one to many play building that audience. But again, getting really niche getting really specific, what we're seeing is that target accounts, often have similar problems, because we're all selling the solution to a problem. So again, if you have, let's say, 50 guests that are on target accounts, you got a 500 person target account list, it's highly likely those accounts and those leaders know one another. And they're going to share that podcast episodes to your target accounts will also start to listen to your show. So again, it's a one to one and one to many type play. And from there, the rest of this is free. So we can pause there for a moment to kind of chat through that. But the rest of this is actually relatively, actually not relatively, it's all free from here.

Brandi Starr  11:34

Okay. So yeah, let's dig into some of the things that I hear as objections to this approach. So, you know, the first thing when I talked to Lacey, I'm trying to think what episode that was, but I talked to Lacey Miller in Episode 51. And we talked about tick tock, and how that there is some significant opportunity for b2b with Tiktok. And one of the things we talked about is, whose face do you put on there. And when it comes to this sort of thing around podcasting, you know, being a podcast host and being a consultant, like so far, we haven't taken the approach where we're, you know, getting guests that are our target accounts. But even just the conversations, we do have opens doors with our target accounts, because we are talking about the problems that they have. So I definitely believe in, you know, kind of the underlying piece. But not every company has someone that a would have the time. And B would have, you know, the air quotes, and I use that really loosely personality to be able to host something meaningful enough that it's actually going to work. So what do you say to that objection?

Mason Cosby  12:53

So you're telling me that you don't have the time to talk to our most valuable potential customers about their problems and their challenges and how they're looking to actually continue to succeed?

Brandi Starr  13:04

You know, this is talking to the right person when it comes to like, how do we not make this a thing? And I agree, which is, you know, we had this podcast on the back burner for almost three years, because my excuse was on time. And then it very much, you know, I had a consulting firm that we worked with, that they said pretty much that exact same thing to me. And I was like, oh, yeah, we got to do this thing now. Yep. So I get it. But when you look and do the research around starting a podcast, running a podcast, you see a lot of the warnings around the level of effort that it requires beyond the conversation. And I think that's where a lot of people get stuck is the publishing and the editing and the booking and you know, all of the stuff beyond the conversation, because the discovery call is just, you know, somebody scheduled it and you get on and have a phone call. So any advice for people that are like I hear you, and this could probably work. But

Mason Cosby  14:12

yeah. So I also run a podcast that is a personal podcast separate from my day job. And I also do some side like advising work. So I have a 40 hour a week job, I have my own personal podcast, I do advising work. And I am a present husband, and eventually soon to be father in August. So I hear the time commitment. But I look at it. And what I say is because it's actually just become a part of my what I view as my overall career matrix, which is a very fancy term of saying all of this kind of plays together, and making sure that I support and I view my job as supporting the larger b2b tech organization. Sorry, b2b tech world. So in my day job and sales assembly, I'm more Get this sales, learning and development platform for b2b tech companies. In my podcast, I'm interviewing b2b tech marketing leaders on how they built their careers, and helping them hire talent, my advising work, I'm often working with b2b tech companies. So again, all that kind of goes together, my podcast becomes the fuel through which I actually create a lot of LinkedIn content, cuz I'm posting on LinkedIn, sometimes upwards of four to five times a day. Right now, I've been averaging about three. So all of that is time consuming. 100%. Correct. But it's worth it. Because how did we start this podcast? You've been following me, and I think you're an incredibly respectable individual. And you're recommending people come follow me, because I post on LinkedIn, like, and little secret, I didn't exist in b2b Four years ago, like, I thought, I'm gonna be a youth pastor, and I made this transition. So because of the active nature through which I have been building, highly relevant, highly practical content, primarily rooted in a podcast, people then view me as somehow like, a person to follow. So I'm saying all of that. Tying it back, how do we make it simple, I think you live stream it like you are, because when you live stream it, the editing is actually relatively easy. People are on. So there's that piece of, nobody's going to stop in the middle and say, Oh, we edit that out. Like, because it's live streamed, they'll recover, they'll make themselves better. The second piece is, I actually used to do like a 30 minute prep call. I don't do that anymore. The people that I'm speaking with, they're all high up executives, they're all really busy people. So actually just like coordinate through a LinkedIn DM, send them a calendar invite with an hour and do a live stream. So all it is, is actually for me, because I'm creating so much content, they're finding me through my comments, and then we're just scheduling out the hour. So it's just an hour potentially on a weekly basis, again, to speak to your most valuable potential customers. Now, you're probably asking the question your mind? Well, how do we get our target accounts to engage our LinkedIn content, because what I just shared is my target accounts are engaging on my LinkedIn content, they're following me they're engaging, they know who I am. So we can, we can go that direction, or we can kind of keep on the podcast train.

Brandi Starr  17:14

Um, you know, I want to go down the LinkedIn direction, because I think you've definitely made the point in terms of the podcasts piece. And that thought process that you went through is exactly what we did. One of the reasons why we do live stream it is so we don't have to edit that takes out that's a lot of the work is in chopping it up. And, you know, being a podcast guest on a lot of podcasts, I often hate when some of what I thought were the best things that I said get cut out, you know, on the editing floor. And so it is a whole lot more engaging. I also don't do the pre call, mainly because, you know, one, my schedule is just as busy because I run a business. But more importantly, a lot of times, you know, when I've been a guest and someone has had that pre call, we have better conversations in the pre call, because it's organic, and then you get on the podcast, and you're trying to get at what you got at last time. And it just, it never flows. And so I think you really hit the key points there. And the biggest takeaway that I want to, you know, just say out loud, is that we make time for what we feel is valuable. And that's what I'm hearing in that, yes, there is a level of effort and a level of time. But as marketers, and as marketing leaders, we and our teams are spending time on something. And, you know, you've repeated the fact that these are our most valuable contacts at our target account, which is, this is the thing that can be the highest priority, and that there's probably something else that we stopped doing to make the time. So let's dig into the social piece. Because you know, b2b, just thinking, you know, and I'm definitely not nearly as active on LinkedIn as you are. But if I look at a post that I make, versus that same post posted through our business account, the engagement is night and day. And a lot of times there is this sort of song and dance that people do in how do we bring the right awareness for the brand and elevating the brand's content? Versus how do we do that for the individuals, you know, where engagement is typically higher. So I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on getting people engaging with that LinkedIn content that ties back into the brand.

Mason Cosby  19:52

Yeah, great question. For starters, if you are looking at do I prioritize a personal account versus a business account, ignore the business account, I ran the I ran the marketing of an agency for nearly two years. And about a year in, I stopped posting on the company account entirely, because it just didn't do anything. It was a shiny object, it was a distraction. If anybody ever actually I take it back, nobody ever asked, like, no one noticed from our team, nobody's posting there, nothing's that's gone silent. Fine. Didn't matter. So I'm giving that context to say if you have to prioritize, prioritize personal accounts. And I also want to focus in on when you do eventually get to a point where that is going? Well, I think you do bring back the company page, because if you look at certain companies that have over time prioritized it, it does get engagement. But it was first, from what I've noticed, and I don't have any, you know, data that is from LinkedIn supporting this, but it's more of a an observation over time. When you build up the personal profiles, first, the company page grows as a byproduct. And people start to actually notice the company more prime example. I would say refund Labs was at their height. from a social perspective. I think it was back in like, mid 2021, early 2022, I think that's what they were, they were at their height, they had the largest number of team members that they had, they had about a third of their team posting daily, if not, multiple times a week, if not daily on LinkedIn. And that resulted in the refund labs page, actually getting hundreds of likes, and hundreds of comments in really good content. But it started because the team itself focused on building up their own personal presence. So that's how I would think through it. And then, as far as like actually getting your personal presence to grow it, I don't know about you. But when I first started on LinkedIn, I connected with friends and family, and people I knew in college, and maybe like old team members. None of them were looking to buy b2b marketing services. So nobody engaged with my content. And again, people have this debate of, you know, you have to post content to build the audience. And what I've actually found works far more effectively, and is a repeatable process that anybody can take is having an intentional, clear strategy around how you send out connection requests. So when you send out a connection request, somebody that accepts that request automatically becomes a follower of yours. So I did. And I have been doing this every day for two years. And every week, I send out the maximum number of connection requests, specifically to my target accounts. When I started, I only had 100. At this point, I don't know what changed, but I got like 250 to 300 connection requests on a weekly basis. So I'm sending all of that out. And that is a at first, I didn't know that there were tools, you can actually get tools to help you with that, that automate some of it. When I started for the first year and a half of doing this, it was an entirely manual process of just like pulling up a list on one screen, pulling up LinkedIn on the other, and going through and connecting with all those people. And it's just a blank connection request. And at first, it's about 100, maybe get 10, I got to a point where I remember one day, I got an email from LinkedIn that said I had 300 new connections after 100 connections, because that also created content that like that really took off that day. But to give you that context to say I've done a B tests where I posted the same exact word for word content a year later, and it took off. But it's because I had built the audience that would appreciate the content I had created. So again, I would actually focus more on creating some content so that you're not a ghost, but focus more of your time on building your correct audience by connecting with your target accounts. And then over time, your content will become more and more relevant within that audience.

Brandi Starr  24:17

Okay, and I want to bring it back a little bit because like, this is all super interesting. I can go down this path, you know, for hours on end. But I want to like thinking about the ABM strategy we talked about the first part is engaging with your target accounts, you know, in your target contacts through a podcast, and then you said that's where we're gonna spend our 32 bucks a month, and the rest of the process is free. So I'd like to hear what your rest of the process looks like. For those that are listening and wanting to really, you know, be able to target accounts and drive that business.

Mason Cosby  25:00

Yeah. So if you remember I said CRM, marketing automation and some way to build a list. There are numerous enrichment platforms that do offer a free trial. So if you wanted to go with a zoom info, if you wanted to go with a slim tail, or a seamless, they all offer a free trial where you can pull up an account list. The other thing that I think is a super helpful way to even start an ABM program, if you don't even want to go, the Free Trial Route is look at those deals that have been closed lost or delayed or dark deals that were the ideal fit. Because in that you have the company, likely the decision making committee that was a part of that deal. And the way to actually contact them. So again, you can build a list out of your closed last, or you can look within your existing CRM, do some specific filtering around, you know, we want to go after this revenue, this location, this industry and get as specific as you can, and that builds your target account list. So again, from the perspective that you got to CRM, you've got marketing automation, like that's not an additional cost. Now, if we do want to go the route of you don't even have that, you're gonna have to get really scrappy. And I actually recommend if you're a local type business, so for example, my father is the head of school at a local Christian school, there is a b2b organization that sells to the state of Indiana. So what they can do, they probably don't have data enrichment, but what they're probably doing is pulling up Google Maps across their entire territory and figuring out what are the locations in which we could actually sell our products to, and then figuring out how to specifically engage like, there are ways where you can pull this list, you're gonna have to get creative, you might have to look at Better Business Bureau, you might have to look at your local chamber of commerce, like there are ways that's not sexy, but it's scrapping. So again, you can figure out ways to find these lists. And from that, actually, then create engaging programs through which you can create one to one relationships with these accounts.

Brandi Starr  27:05

Okay, so we get our list through we'll just say whatever means ethical means there are some people that kind of go in different directions, what's next after that?

Mason Cosby  27:18

So yeah, I mean, again, if we're, if we're in b2b, specifically b2b Tech, a lot of our potential customers, we're going to be on LinkedIn. So that's the LinkedIn connection strategy. So again, building that audience proactively on LinkedIn and creating content that's relevant and engaging for those individuals. So like, on LinkedIn, I have roughly 16,000 followers, which is nice and helpful. But the LinkedIn strategy for me when I think about proactive, it's an account based strategy. So I literally have a list right now of the sales leaders and the enablement leaders that I am connecting with on a daily basis, so that I can be in front of them. And I'm also connecting with their marketing counterparts, to showcase the ways in which marketing and sales can cooperate, can support one another can build scrappy ABM programs. So again, it's really that that next piece is the LinkedIn piece through which you can then build up the audience to then invite people onto a show. Because the other piece is when I first started building my podcast two years ago, I actually have a lot of people that said, No, they didn't want to be on an earlier podcast, they didn't know who I was, I was irrelevant in the industry. But now I have some small level of credibility. Somebody thinks I've got decent content here and there, that's kind of helpful. And as a result, people say yes, a lot more often, I get invited to stuff where my target accounts are tomorrow. Or not tomorrow, but like, I'm going to an event in Chicago, where a ton of my target accounts are in person, would you view that as an account based strategy? No, I got invited to it, I couldn't have predicted it, but by the nature of the people that I spend time with online, they are either my target accounts, or they have the connection to my target accounts. So again, I have just built a sphere of influence, that is constantly pointing back to these target accounts. So that I am always around and I am always relevant.

Brandi Starr  29:11

So thinking about this, because I see when I think about, you know, smaller organizations, I definitely see like, easy paths to be able to implement this, and shift, you know, resources effort to being able to really take I mean, because this is a really focused strategy that clearly has big wins. Thinking about it for larger entities, where, you know, they tend to, you know, turn like a cruise ship as opposed to like a Mazda Rottie. Like, where how do we how do we get buy in how do we shift cuz you know, it's one of those things can't totally like just shift direction You know, it's usually we're gonna run a pilot, and yeah, this little group. So for thinking about larger organizations were taking this ABM approach is a little harder to get moving. Any thoughts on how they are able to take what you're saying and be able to leverage this, when you know, there may not be a Mason in their organization that can be the person that's this LinkedIn personality? You know, it's it's more of a machine that's running.

Mason Cosby  30:30

Yeah, I've got three answers. So hopefully one of these answers will help somebody. The first one is, as controversial as it is, don't ask, like, it's LinkedIn connections. You know, it's not like we're starting first, from a podcast perspective, like this first step is actually building that LinkedIn audience and creating relevant content. You don't necessarily have to ask anybody. Granton and larger organizations where there's more of corporate structure and legal might start to get a little bit concerned. Yeah, like, there may be some of those questions. And I worked at a company that was 25. And they got acquired by a company that was 600, I had a conversation almost every other week about the posts that I made on LinkedIn, it was just kind of a part of the territory that I eventually got into, not because I was posting anything crazy, but it's just like, what I said, Didn't 100% aligned with every single piece of the brand narrative, that's fine, because it was my own personal opinions. So I give you that context to say, don't ask, at first people won't even notice. And eventually, when people actually start to notice, it is likely because it is working. And then they start to ask questions around. How are you doing that? Versus Why are you doing that? So again, that's the first step. Maybe just don't ask second thing. If you, you want to first focus on direction. So again, I used to work in a marketing agency, and I work at primarily a sales lead organization, and you've interviewed my direct supervisor, he is the head of Reb ops. Practically, I mean, as I look at what I'm doing within the organization, I am focused on 80% the right direction, and not 100% of my own ideas and execution. Because in reality, as long as we are headed in the right direction, I'm not going to fight those battles, there are 20% of things that I fight battles on. So for example, if you can get people headed in the right direction of, we should be doing an account based something we're heading the right direction, if you can get people in the right direction on, we might want to start a podcast go great, you're heading the right direction. And at that point, you can then start to actually layer in this idea of, hey, what if we invited our target accounts onto the show? We're again, crazy concept. Don't ask, just do it. And again, I don't say that from the perspective of like, just don't be open and honest. But the reality is, I view it. And again, I've even shared this with my new boss like I was hired, because you want me to be the expert on this thing. So like, if it's a big organizational thing, like we're doing a brand messaging exercise right now, there's lots of opinions on how we frame the product and frame the brand within our larger market. And there should be, but this exact guests that we've had on our podcast, as long as we're creating good content that promotes the brand, I don't know that people care exactly who we have on the show. So I don't think you even have to ask on that front. The last one, this is one that I think is potentially the most controversial, but also the most effective. Again, try, maybe build it on your own. The marketing ladder started that way. I tried to convince former employers, Hey, we should build a podcast. And I got I got the same objections that we often get. I don't have the time. How are we going to do this? Like, it's gonna be so expensive. And like, after about two months of trying to convince that we should start it. I spent the $30. And I built my own podcast. What the resulted in is about a million dollars in revenue for the business I worked for. Because what happened is we closed I've done 100 episodes in the time that I was there be closed for guests that had been on the show. If I had been there for longer, I already had other guests that were in pipelines. I don't know what ended up with those because I you know, NDAs and all that but like, the reality is, I built it on my own and my podcast was on marketing careers. It wasn't even the right topic. But the fact that it was building one to one meaningful relationships, and genuine friendships with my target accounts, they trusted me in that trust transition to the brand. So again, if you can't get the approvals. Build it yourself. And the other value is when ever, you inevitably leave your organization, because that will probably happen at some point, you're probably not going to work at the same place for the next 40 years. That goes with you as a career asset that now you own.

Brandi Starr  35:15

As I say, that's a really, really good point. And I like the it's more I always hear people say, ask for forgiveness and not permission. Which, you know, in a lot of places that does help, especially when you're trying something new. Because a lot of companies seemingly, the larger they are, the more resistant they are to try new things. Well, this has been amazing. I think we've hit on a lot of different takeaways that go far beyond scrapping ABM. But talking about our challenges is just the first step and nothing changes, if nothing changes. In traditional therapy, the therapist will give the client some homework, but here at Revenue Rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. So I always love to have, you know, key takeaways something that people can do relatively immediately. If they're all jazz, they see the value in what you're saying, what's our one thing, what's our first step that we should take?

Mason Cosby  36:16

Build your list.

Brandi Starr  36:20

Pretty self explanatory, straight to the point you got to know who we are trying to go after. So that is awesome. And I know you also mentioned that I talked to Brad Brad was episode 54. So if you are listening, once you finish this episode, jump back one or two, and listen to that episode because we had a great conversation around revenue operations, as well. So a whole different aspect, but really, really good information. Well, Mason, I have enjoyed our discussion. But that's our time for today. Before we go, can you tell our audience how to stay connected with you?

Mason Cosby  37:02

Yes. And if I can share one final piece, because there's a question that I want to bring back, which is who should you have as the host? So I'll answer that in a moment. Where can you find me LinkedIn, as main one, I do have a tick tock that I'm trying to make larger at marketing Mason. And then I have my own podcast, which is the marketing ladder. So those are the three main places you can find me. And then the last point of who should you have the most ideal situation is either the CEO, or the exact persona that you're trying to speak with. Because then it becomes a peer to peer conversation. And in the absolute ideal sense, you want someone as I like to call it that is tethered to the business. How many podcasts have died? Because the people that were hosting the show left the organization?

Brandi Starr  37:55

Yeah, there's one of my favorites that was in that situation. And I'm like, you can continue.

Mason Cosby  38:01

Yep. And again, from that perspective, I've heard from a lot of people because he is awful at talking like they are. They're very product focused person. They're super nerdy. They're super good at that. But like, as far as like talking on a podcast, they don't have the personality for it. Is the final thought anything worth doing is worth sucking out for a little bit. Yeah, just get some reps, you'll get better.

Brandi Starr  38:27

And that is so so true. Like I even you know, go back to I mean, Revenue Rehab is a little over a year old now. And although I still think the first episode was really good, if I listened to it by comparison to 50 something episodes later, there's definitely just a different flow. And so yeah, there is something to start where you're at and get better at it. Because you know, even when things suck, sometimes they're still effective. Well, awesome. Thank you so, so much for joining me today. And thanks, everyone for joining us. I hope that you have enjoyed my conversation with Mason. I can't believe we are already at the end. We will see you next time.

Outro VO  39:19

You've been listening to Revenue Rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at Revenue Rehab dot live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at Revenue Rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.

Mason CosbyProfile Photo

Mason Cosby

Director of Demand Generation

Mason Cosby serves as the Director of Demand Generation at Sales Assembly. Mason specializes in building Scrappy ABM programs on low budgets that drive high impact. Serving as the Marketing Lead at numerous boutique, bootstrapped businesses, Mason has Sourced over $2.5M in the past 2 years, driving an 8X ROI. If you are looking for no-nonsense practical marketing execution that drives revenue, Mason Cosby creates daily content on LinkedIn.