Revenue Rehab: It's like therapy, but for marketers
June 1, 2022

Perfecting the Customer Experience: Addressing the Changing Buyer Journey

In this episode of Revenue Rehab, Brandi Starr is joined by Yushau Sodiq Vice President of Verint. Yushau is a marketing executive with over 20 years of experience in all things marketing, including digital, product, and operations, his career spans...

In this episode of Revenue Rehab, Brandi Starr is joined by Yushau Sodiq Vice President of Verint. Yushau is a marketing executive with over 20 years of experience in all things marketing, including digital, product, and operations, his career spans Fortune 500, consulting, and start-ups working with some of the world's largest brands, like Behr Paint, Dell, and Coca-Cola. He’s also co-host of the popular Podcast 'F the Joneses', with his Physician and Life Coaching wife, Dr. Diana.

In this episode, Yushau shares some key insights into how and why we should shift from the linear imagery of the traditional marketing ‘funnel’.

Yushau and Brandi also discuss the shifting Buyer Journey, how CMOs can address it and the critical role data plays in that journey.

We’re taking on Perfecting the Customer Experience; from the Buyer Journey as an infinite loop, to key take-aways from Revenue Takeover, to why data matters, you’re invited to get settled on the sofa for an insightful and informative discussion in this latest episode of Revenue Rehab.

Bullet Points of Key Topics + Chapter Markers:

  • Topic #1 It’s not a funnel, it’s a figure eight [5:43] Yushau walks us through the restrictions of his Buzzword Banishment ‘funnel’ and how an infinity loop more clearly illustrates and helps to inform the customer experience.
  • Topic #2 Addressing the Changing Buyer Journey [9:59] means acknowledging and personalizing the customer experience. Yushau describes how understanding the buyer journey so you can give customers more of what they are looking for.
  • Topic #3 Data, data, data! [23:33] Yushau and Brandi discuss the critical importance of Digital Web Data. Use what you already have at your fingertips, of which, Yushau shares, there is a ton, Google Analytics, your CRM, SEM Rush, Twitter data, LinkedIn data and more.

So, What's the One Thing You Can Do Today?

Yushau encourages CMOs to build an ecosystem by doing things like ‘lunch and learns’ that include all four revenue-touching teams (customer, product, sales, marketing) to help understand the buyer journey.

Buzzword Banishment:

The term Funnel.  It’s narrow and linear, Yushau says, and almost exclusively reflects only prospects and new customers.  He’d like to see it replaced with an infinite loop to better reflect and encompass the Buyer Journey, from prospect to new customer, to repeat sales.


  • Get in touch with Yushau Sodiq on LinkedIn or Twitter
  • Listen to Yushau Sodiq and Dr. Diana’s podcast F the Jones available on all platforms
  • And check out Yushau’s comedy (Yoshee) on TikTok
  • For more information about ‘CMO to CRO: The Revenue Takeover By The
    Next Generation Executive’ book check out the website here

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review Revenue Rehab Podcast on Apple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle Podcasts , Amazon Music, or iHeart Radio and find more episodes on our website


[0:06] Intro:

Welcome to Revenue Rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita, Brandi Starr.

[0:30] Brandi Starr:

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host, Brandi Starr and we have an amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Yushau Sodiq. Yushau is a marketing executive with over 20 years of experience in all things marketing, including digital products and operations. His career spans fortune 500 consulting and startups, working with some of the world's largest brands like Behr Paint, Dell and Coca Cola. He is considered a thought leader in the marketing space after the notoriety he earned building the world's first helicopter auction site for Bell Helicopter with his bare hands. Applying his creative knowledge to his passions, Yoshi which is his stage name, is also the founder of Comedy Wit, a production company specializing in comedy, improv and sketch shows in the southeast area. He also co-hosts the popular podcast F the Joneses, with his physician and life coaching wife, Dr. Diana, which streams on all platforms. Yoshi is a stand-up comedian, improviser and comedy writer who is an executive producer of the award winning short film, Pop Pop is Dead available on Amazon Prime. Yushau, welcome to Revenue Rehab, your session begins now.

[2:12] Yushau Sodiq:

Yaaayyy! That was such a good intro. Sometimes I forget what I've done.

[2:15 ] Brandi Starr:

And I have to say I've known you for a while but I did learn some interesting things reading your bio. I did not know you were a stand-up comedian and improviser. Improv is something I have always wanted to learn. I consider myself funny, but not in more of the comedian, like actually be up on stage kind of ways. So that's impressive.

[2:40] Yushau Sodiq: 

Yeah. Improv is one of the things that I got into years ago. But it definitely has helped from a career perspective, just because within improv you get to learn how to listen. And it's been one of the things that I've applied to my professional career. And it's been so helpful. Just being in a room, being able to listen, being able to spit back what people are saying, and then also be able to sort of synergize that information and tell them okay, this is what to do with that. It's a very much yes and kind of philosophy that I've taken from stand up and in the stage into my professional career. So it's been super helpful.

[3:18] Brandi Starr:

Well, you've inspired me. I'm going to put it on my list to make sure to finally take that improv class. And so as we get into our conversation today, I like to break the ice with a little whoosah moment that I call buzzword banishment. So tell me, what industry buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

[3:45 ] Yushau Sodiq: 

Okay. There's going to be some thought leaders that do not like me for saying this, but can we please get rid of the funnel? I want to the funnel to just be gone. And I know, it's been part of sort of just the marketing technology speak for such a very, very long time. It's in everything that we do. But man, we use it way too often. And I think it gets construed, because when you think of the funnel, you think of the only thing that the funnel is, which is this V shaped thing of start to bottom. And the reality is the buyer journey, and what we're talking about today is completely not this. I mean, it's more like a loop-d-loop kind of thing. And it's like, why do we keep talking about this funnel? So I may even still use it but if we could get rid of it and replace it with another word, that'd be great for me.

[4:40] Brandi Starr:

Yeah, my issue with the funnel has always been the notion that people fall out of the bottom. You think about the visual and even seeing videos where they animate, where it looks like people are jumping in and then you see the people fall out at the bottom. It just doesn't feel like a good experience.

[5:03] Yushau Sodiq: 

It's like you dropped through then where did they go?

[5:08] Brandi Starr: Right. My son plays Minecraft and then they call it the void or the neither. And that's like the place where you just like fall into the nothingness. And that's what the funnel feels like. So I'm with you, I am good to put the funnel in the box and to tie it up and toss it. 

[05:29] Yushau Sodiq: 

And then we'll go back to it when we need it but right now crosstalk 

[05:35] Brandi Starr:

Perfect. Well, now that we've gotten that off of our chest, tell me what brings you to Revenue Rehab today?

[5:43] Yushau Sodiq: 

Well, my belief is, I feel like we need to change the way we think about the customer experience and changing the buyer journey overall. And the way I think we need to do that is to redefine what that buyer journey looks like. And in terms of redefining it, I just think we have to include all the things we are now learning from the digital experience and from the digital realm, back into that buyer journey. As we talk about the funnel, the funnel has always been defined, like you said this little V shape, where it starts at the awareness level, consideration, decision, and then you purchase. And now it's like, well, that's really not the reality of it. It's actually more like a funnel that goes like this, and then continues on to another funnel that goes. So it's like this super hyperloop kind of thing, what I call it sort of the figure eight, where there's an owner perspective, and then there's a prospect perspective. And in the prospect, there's a whole bunch of stuff that you do. And then when you actually own the product, there's a whole bunch of stuff that you have to do when you own the product. And then those things sort of in a loop because the people who are going to buy more of your product already own your product. We know this right, especially in [inaudible 06:53]. So what do you do to cultivate that? So it's really just around, what I want to talk about as much as possible is, how do we redefine what that buyer journey actually looks like, bringing in all the things that we've learned now in the past couple of years around digital, and the way that people are getting tagged and the way that information is getting shared amongst different networks. And how do we bring that information into the entire buyer journey so we can actually have a much better customer experience for people that want to actually buy our products.

[7:31 ] Brandi Starr:

I love it and talking about the changing buyer journey is something I've been doing a lot lately. In fact, in Episode 10, I got the pleasure of talking to the ladies at RepTrak around some of the data of how reputation is impacting the buyer journey and how the buyers are changing. But before we jump into really talking about this, I believe in setting intentions. It gives us focus, it gives us purpose and most important, it gives our audience a clear understanding of what they should expect from our discussion. So tell me, what are your best hopes for our talk today? Or what would you like to be different after our session?

[8:15] Yushau Sodiq: 

You know, I'm hoping that your listeners really get into thinking about the buyer journey and the customer experience as an ongoing experience. And as something that you don't stop doing, even when you actually do get the customer. Constantly listening, constantly paying attention to your customers, and paying attention to your prospects on an ongoing basis is truly the customer experience. And so my hope is that, as the improv term, yes and, yes they're a customer and what else can we learn about them as we keep going on throughout this entire journey. That's what I'm hoping we truly get out of this.

[8:53] Brandi Starr:

I will say amen to that. I am a firm believer that everything ties back to the customer experience. And at the end of the day, if you are in any department that touches revenue, customer experience is what your job is and the rest is more the execution of that. So you talked about the funnel versus the figure eight or the infinity loop. I definitely subscribe to the infinity loop model because it is an ongoing relationship. So my first question for you is around the experience. So we have two things happening at the same time. We have the customer experience and how the customer thinks, how they engage with us. And we have the buyer journey, which is how we as sales and marketing are thinking about what we are trying to do. What advice or what thoughts do you have around how people can effectively marry those two?

[9:59] Yushau Sodiq: 

You know I think one of the big things is, once you start listening to your prospects and your customers, you will start to understand that they actually need two separate different types of experiences. And maybe not even two, probably more different kinds of experiences, because you have different kinds of customers. You have customers that are super engaged customers, that are just new customers and they just got your tool. They may be slow adopters of your tool, they just got it, but they probably won't turn it on for like a month or so. And then you've got customers that get your tool, and literally are like hands down, always calling customer service, always call customer care. How do I do this? How do I do that? How do I do this? Now the experience that they have online and digitally, and their experience with your product now becomes your face, now becomes what they describe as the experience with your company, with your product. Now that should be different based on what kind of customer that is. And so I think one big way, just really to marry the two is personalization. I think there's a level of personalization that has to happen, that you can do from a customer experience perspective, that is super important to that buyer journey. Now, that personalization can happen on a digital front, which is super important, because you can personalize the web experience. Now you can also personalize the actual product experience too, which is the beautiful part about my new favorite thing PLGs and product lead growth, of just customizing what that looks like. If you've got a type of customer that is just super engaged, well give them super engaged type of content. Same thing on the web experience. If you got a customer that or prospect that has just downloaded 14 of your documents, give them much more. How do you get them into the back, as I'm about to use the word, get them into the funnel, but how do you get them engaged with more people really to say, okay, now you've downloaded 14 of these things. What exactly are you looking for? How do you actually engage with them to actually say, what's the next thing that you want to find out? And so I think personalization is a huge part of the buyer experience and the journey in itself. And I think it's one way that organizations can truly differentiate themselves with customers overall, and with prospects.

[12:26] Brandi Starr:

Yeah, I agree. And I think one challenge that I hear come up a lot, that ties to the ability to do personalization and the ability to really do the kind of targeting and getting the right things in front of the right people, is because the journey has changed so much, it's a lot harder for marketers to actually know where people are. If you think about way back when sales own the whole thing, the opportunity stage was the definition. Because it was like they were in awareness, and then they were engaged with sales, and we knew exactly where they were. Now, we don't so much because, I mean, I was just talking to a client, who we recognize that our y-calculators were actually more of a top of funnel asset for them. Whereas most people would see them as a lower stage. But that was like price comparison, and understanding the return is something that like people were looking for straight out of the gate. And so I had a thought that I want to get your opinion on one idea that just popped in my head but more importantly, what you've seen work is we talk about personas when it comes to prospects. But as you talked about the different types of customers, customer marketing is something I've done a lot in my career. And we've always just deemed it customer, like these are our customers. But really, we could be giving our customers personas. Like which are those highly engaged, which are new, which are needy, those sorts of things so that we could personalize. What have you seen that has worked in terms of being able to bucket people so that you can effectively give them the right content?

[14:22] Brandi Starr:

That's a really good note, Brandi. I think one thing that I think about and one thing that I've seen work is sort of at the top when you're talking about your strategy, and when you're talking about really that buyer persona and building that customer persona of who your clients are, in the ABM world is when you're selecting those accounts. When you're selecting those types of accounts and you want to know exactly who they are, it's really defining what type of customer they are all the way through. But it's defining at the prospect and at the customer level and it's building it the same way you build out your buyer personas. We used to do the buyer personas, not used to, some people still do. And there's nothing wrong with it. Peter, the pipeline generator, let's say you're a seller [inaudible 15:13], or Tim the techie technologist, or whatever it may be. Do the same thing for your customer, and do the same types of marketing activities for your customer. Because they're all inside of your ecosystem, let's say you've got a large email list. Well, the stuff that Tim the techy person likes as a customer is going to be different than let's say, Tom, the techy person who is a prospect. Those are two very different kinds of things. But I think the more you segment out that experience, the more you'll get back a whole lot more data. I think just the model -- one thing I would say that I think we've gotten rid of this term of spray and pray, we've done it so much with email where we just say, alright, so the entire list, let's see what happened and let's see who reacts.

[16:11] Yushau Sodiq: 

I still fight that battle with some people.

[16:14] Brandi Starr:

And then you do the email open rates, and then it goes down to who actually touched it, it goes down to who actually responded. It's kind of very much the opposite of that, which is, don't spray and pray. You know Tim, you know Tom, you know Peter, you know, all of these different types of things so personalize the experience for them. But the key to that personalizing, that experience is constantly testing. Personalization is about testing. Personalization is trying one thing, see if it works, if it doesn't work, try something different. And if it does work, double down on it. And then try it again. It's this constant phase, I don't want to say AB modeling is like the key because there's other ways to model and test, but constantly testing, it's definitely going to get you a much better ROI on your actual marketing activities, rather than just saying, oh, let's just spray and pray and see what the marketing gods give us in terms of a return. I think you just have to personalize the experience the same way we've done with prospects. And we give so much to the prospect journey, do the same thing with the customer journey. And as you mentioned, it's just about profiling. Profile them the same way that the ICP that we do for free accounts, do the same thing for non-accounts, and sort of backwards.

[17:40] Brandi Starr:

I think I have a few takeaways from what you just said, number one, it drives me crazy that the personas are always rhyming. That's always been one of those things. I'm like why do we have to make all these things rhyme. But walking off on that tangent the more important thing that I took away from that is, while I think that some people get it, in terms of what they need to be doing because I am a proponent of always be testing. There should be something that is being actively tested at all times, in my opinion, and that should be done very strategically and methodically. But the pushback that I hear most often, in that I'll have some clients that they're like, yeah, like, I totally get it, I understand we need to be doing that but we don't have the time or the resources to dedicate to that. And I'll say, you can't afford not to because if you're just doing a bunch of stuff, you're likely wasting a bunch of time, resources and budget. But what do you say to people who are like, yeah, I get it but yeah, the reality is we don't have capacity for that.

[18:55] Yushau Sodiq: 

For sure. I always say I think of testing in the same way that you talk about as your organization as a consultant, and you guys have to come with that very great approach of you should try these things. You can't force anyone to do anything, because you don't know as your book mentioned, like all the silos and the misaligned agendas and the competing priorities that happens from organizational side. You don't know what those things are. So you can only come with the best kind of suggestions that you can bring to the table. I always say when an organization sort of comes back with that one thing that I learned, especially in the consulting world is okay, let's just do it your way. But what if we take out 10% of your list to see what happens if we did it our way? And then see the results. And then if that works, if we get different results, you got 90%, we got 10% and in this 10% we saw something different about it. Can we push it up to 15% the next month? Those email newsletters are going out maybe every month or some campaign is going out every two to three weeks. You can always find one niche of one small piece or take one persona that they're not like great at, and use that to actually do the personalization or use that to do the testing. And they're like, oh, we actually don't talk to Susie the security analyst. Let's use that as the test model for you moving forward. Now, as a consultant, you actually get to test within your own sort of subgroup. And I think that's truly the key, you got to make some kind of [inaudible 20:36] way for them to think differently than what they're used to. Because if they keep doing the same thing, you're going to get the same kind of results. We've seen what spray and pray does, it doesn't work. If there's an organization that says, we've been doing spray and pray since the beginning, and it's the greatest thing, since sliced bread, I want to [inaudible 20:56] organization and I want to see their numbers. 

[20:59] Brandi Starr:

They're lying. I can tell you, if they say that they're lying.

[21:06] Yushau Sodiq: 

And we know it, and you've seen it, you've talked to many of organizations, large and small. And there's just some things that you know, do not work in this new digital world. Some things just do not work the way that they used to. We are getting such more inundated with so much more information, and so much more input, and the data that we're getting, is coming from so many different places. That's why like the six senses, the SalesLoft, all these outreaches, all these other organizations that are able to bring -- the terminus that are able to bring other trigger points that you have no information about, you don't see that stuff. But they get it, it's the third party data. Now you can infuse that information back into your own data, that makes it even more beautiful for you to actually personalize, for you to actually do better integration with your data on. And I think that's the important part, is you got to listen to all of the ecosystem. There's so much more in the ecosystem. I can't wait till Amazon starts giving up the Alexa data. It's like that stuff is what we need to listen to what's happening. LinkedIn has given up data, like all these companies that have the insight into what's happening with professionals, the more data that users and prospects and organizations can see, the better it is for us to actually customize the entire customer experience.

[22:36] Brandi Starr:

So yeah, I want to shift gears and talk about data. Because I know data is something that you and I are both passionate about. And in order to personalize, in order to have an effective customer experience, you've got to have the data to support it. What would you say, because my listeners are at all different stages in their digital transformation, which is another one of those buzzwords and what data is available? And so what would you say if someone's like, yeah, we don't personalize because we don't have access to any data. Let's just say we're starting from ground zero. What would you say are the most important things that a b2b company needs to understand, to try to at least do better in providing a personalized and targeted customer experience?

[23:33] Yushau Sodiq: 

Okay, I think the first level of data that any organization can really get their hands around is digital web data. I think just that data itself, if you have Google Analytics, just having Google Analytics, Google Search Console, just seeing the data from the website is so strikingly important, because that data has a lot of rich elements into it. It tells you how long people stay on the site, it tells you where people are going, it tells you all the landing pages people are getting to, it tells you where people are exiting the site. Just that first level data, I think is super important, which then translates into SEO, search engine, optimization data. Whether you use like an Semrush, or a Moz or Neil Patel, whatever it may be, use something to get at least first data analytics around your digital information. That's first. Then I would say probably the second thing to try to get to is use the stuff that you have in your CRM, use the stuff that you're getting from your sales, but marry those two pieces together first. You already know you. You don't have to ask for more CRM data. You can just have it, it's already there right now. Could you enhance it with demand base or other types of tools that enhance the data? Absolutely. But could you just use what you have already, what your salespeople are giving you? You short can. But all this digital data, I mean, Google Analytics is just a treasure trove of information. The YouTube channel data, if you have YouTube on your site, the LinkedIn data, the Twitter data, whatever you have at your disposal, all these data points are actually free. Analytics is free, you don't have to get the big package of analytics to see all this beautiful data. And I'd say, the web data is the beginning, then you can enhance it with the third party stuff that you may have to get from like the ABM experience type of tools that are out there, like the Six Senses, the Outreach, the Terminus, all those other types of organizations can provide sort of what that third party data could look like. But yeah, just web, digital data is a good place to start because it's available.

[25:59] Brandi Starr:

Yeah. And I think that it seems like simple advice, but it's really sound advice, which is start with what you have. I think, we're not far after, you know, I think it was few weeks ago that the Martec 90 billion at this point started off as 5000 was released. And, of course, there's thousands more technologies this year than last. And because there's so much available, I think a lot of times people default to buy more tech. And sometimes that is needed, I'm not going to say that's never the answer. But a lot of times, it really is exactly what you're saying, is start with what you have and the low hanging fruit, another buzzword, is to marry that data or in our world, integrate those data sources, so that you can start to not have all these disparate mesh metrics, but actually put them together.

[27:02] Yushau Sodiq: 

Yeah, absolutely. And you talked about something earlier that I think is super important, which is all of this is really tied to revenue at the end of the day. And anything that touches revenue, whether it's customer service, whether it's product, whether it's marketing, and sales, get that data, because you already know it, you know that if you have a customer service team, you can get the data of what types of calls that they have. What types of information are you getting from customers, what type of issues are people having? Use that data point, use the stuff that you're getting from your product, your product has analytics and utilization tools and utilization metrics in it. Use that data as much as possible. Like you said, use the stuff that you have, it can be powerful already, before buying more data. And I think if need be, hire someone who's really good at bringing all that stuff together. If anything, don't try to solve this b2b marketing ecosystem of revenue by yourself. It's a big honking piece of thing to try to figure out. And if you don't have the staff, or someone who's focused on it, just get help.

[28:18] Brandi Starr:

Or even someone that understands data at that level. We're going through a big data project with a client right now doing exactly this, which is working with them to bring all their data sources. They've got a robust tech stack and none of its really connected in terms of the data. It's about a six month project, but we're going through with them, helping them to figure it out. And one thing that I'm seeing because I'm a marketer, and a strategist, not an analyst. And so as I'm a part of this project, talking to the people that know how to make all the data work, it's really, really interesting of how these scripts and all these different things come together. But it helps me understand why people don't tackle this, because it is a skill set that not everyone has. And so that's my shameless plug for something that we do help with.

[29:19] Yushau Sodiq: 

It's a good point because like you said, I've recognized to the same thing. I'm marketer, I'm a strategist myself. But when I was deeply consulting, we have people that were analysts that did nothing by financial modeling. And they just knew numbers. They saw spreadsheets, and were like, I can do this, this, this, this, this, this. And I had no idea. Like, where's the design? I can't see the trends on all of this. So even for an organization like yourself, you guys know, well, we have an analyst that can help just consume all this stuff. That's why I love how data scientists and data analysts are being much more marketing driven. They're seeing all the stuff that's coming from marketing and being able to analyze it. Because it all comes back to that revenue at the end of the day. It's like, well, this is how our numbers are being affected. Well, how do we understand it and how do we find the right people that understand these numbers? Sometimes you just got to get a lot of really smart people in the room to figure this stuff out.

[30:23] Brandi Starr:

Yeah, because you can't influence what you don't understand. And that's the key. It's our goal to influence revenue. But if we don't understand what is happening, how things are performing, then we really are and a lot of people try to think they're not spray and pray. But if we don't actually understand what's happening, here, it really is spray and pray. That's what's happening, it's just a little more strategic than it used to be.

[30:48] Yushau Sodiq: 

You might not even be spraying, you might just be praying for the crosstalk

[30:54] Brandi Starr:

So talking about our challenges is just the first step, and nothing changes if nothing changes, so we got to do the work. And in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but here at Revenue Rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us the homework. Because when you know better, you do better. So can you summarize for us your key takeaways and give our listeners that one thing that they can do to move the needle on improving their customer experience, and managing the buyers' journey? 

[31:35] Yushau Sodiq: 

I would say my key takeaway for this conversation, I think it's something that you mentioned, and something that we sort of collectively got to, which is the buyer journey and the customer prospect does not stop at just the prospect. I think it also involves the customer. And I think building out an ecosystem by which you understand your prospects, whether it's a rhyming Sally the analyst, or Tim the actual technologist, whatever that may be, use that to your advantage to understand a bigger ecosystem. But what that really means is that you're listening to your prospects, and you're listening to your customers. And so my one thing that I would say is to find more ways to get more data, and to learn more about what's happening in your ecosystem. And one thing that I've done in the past, and I think it's so helpful, is to do some lunch and learns with other team members who are involved with revenue. Your customer service is involved with revenue, your product teams are involved with revenue, your sales teams and your marketing teams. You get all four of those teams together and just doing Lunch and Learn, where you are just learning about what's happening in each of their worlds. It can be an hour, and if you're remote, maybe just, I would say maybe get some wine, if it's like later on. But if it's like a lunch and learn and you can't have wine during the day or something, then I'd say maybe just get some lunch and enjoy the time, but really share some interesting things from each one of you. One thing about what we talked about, if you're listening to customers and listening to prospects, the other thing you shouldn't forget, is to listen to each other and listen to the organization. Don't forget the organization has data points. People in customer service know a lot that you don't know as a marketer. People in product know a lot that you don't know, as a salesperson, start to listen internally, and that listening will get you so much further. And then you don't have to spray and pray. Because you're now dealing with actual data points that you know. I think one of the biggest things I learned about Lunch and Learn that I did a while back, was we were using acronyms as part of our search engine and we were paying a lot of money for these acronyms -- not acronyms, abbreviations. And we learned that no one in the sales was using the abbreviations. No one in product was using the abbreviations. No one in customer service was using the abbreviations. It was just marketing that was using the abbreviations, because we saw it on Google search and we're like, oh, this has a lot of people and people are searching for this. And when we dropped it, we saved so much money, like thousands of dollars on not using that. And it never affected any kind of prospecting or never affected anything in the journey that we were going through and in the funnel that we were going through. So we just stopped using that term overall. So I think if we hadn't been for that Lunch and Learn, we would have never known that that buzzword that we were using wasn't affected and no one was actually talking about it. But we were so married to it because we saw it in some data point that was actually external to us, not internal to us. And I think that's the key, because listen internally, and then also listen to externally, but always keep listening. I don't know if I can patent that but I like that though.

[35:03] Brandi Starr:

I like the idea of lunch and learn anytime we can involve eating and especially if there's wine, you can count me in. So I love that as a takeaway, and it is like an easy one thing, even if you can only schedule lunch or virtual coffee or virtual wine at the end of the day with one person in the organization that may have access to different data and insight than you, that gives you a step in the right direction. 

[35:34] Yushau Sodiq: 


[35:35] Brandi Starr:

Well, Yushau I have enjoyed our discussion and that is our time today. Before we go, we'll let you earn a few hubby brownie points and me about the F the Joneses Podcast with your life coach wife, Dr. Diana. Tell me what is that I am so interested?

[35:58] Yushau Sodiq: 

Well, it's a podcast that we started right at the beginning of the pandemic two years ago. And we made a move just personally to sort of just shift our whole life goals and objectives into be much more intentional. We moved to a house that was half the cost of what it was, we moved to a much further location and we just started living with intention. And what we recognized is that we were following the script before we did the move of just keeping up with the Joneses. And what we recognize is we shifted our whole mind-set to just be like F the Joneses, just do us. And so we talked about it and my wife, she's a physician and a life coach. And she's just had conversations with so many physicians, so many women that were just going through this element in their life where they were just not living with intention. And so we started the podcast just as a way to talk about any type of topics that come up with marriage, relationships, but just how to not follow that same script of Keeping Up with the Joneses. And so when we made the shift, we started talking about it on the podcast. And we talk about everything from The Five Love Languages, talk about kids, we talk about marriage, we talk about really everything that comes up, but living life with intention. And so this podcast is very near and dear to me, near and dear to us. We enjoy it and we've got a lot of amazing feedback from it. But it's really about just following your own journey as much as possible. And so yeah, check it out, F the Joneses podcasts on all streaming channels.

[37:39] Brandi Starr:

I love that I am one that believes in setting intentions. I have my new moon ritual of where I focus on what my intentions are for that moon cycle. So I will definitely add that to my podcast playlist. Thank you so much for joining me. I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion.

[38:01] Yushau Sodiq: 

Thank you. This was fun. And congrats on the book again. It's such a great read. So thank you guys, you and the other two co-authors, it's such a good hearty, like, oh, yeah, this makes sense. 

[38:17] Brandi Starr:

Yes, and for those not familiar with the book he is mentioning it is CMO to CRO: The Revenue Takeover by the Next Generation Executive. And you can access it at Well thank you, everyone for joining us today. I hope you have enjoyed our conversation with Yushau. I can't believe we are at the end already. So thank you, and we will see you next time.

[38:46] Yushau Sodiq: 

Bye everybody.

[38:49] Outro:

You've been listening to Revenue Rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. Join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at We're also on Twitter and Instagram at Revenue Rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.

Yushau SodiqProfile Photo

Yushau Sodiq

Technology Executive, Father of 3, Comedian

Yushau is a marketing executive with over 20 years of experience in all things marketing, including digital, product, and operations. His career spans Fortune 500, consulting, and startups working with some of the world's largest brands, like Behr Paint, Dell, and Coca-Cola. He is considered a thought leader in the marketing space after the notoriety he earned building the world's first helicopter auction site for Bell helicopter with his bare coding hands. As a marketing executive, he is Vice President of Verint, a customer engagement company providing tools and solutions to enterprise and mid-market organizations.

Applying his creative knowledge to his passion, Yoshee (stage name) is also the founder of Comedy Wit, a production company specializing in comedy, improv, and sketch shows in the Southeast area. He also co-hosts the popular Podcast 'F the Joneses' with his Physician and Life Coaching wife, Dr. Diana, streaming on all platforms. Yoshee is a standup comedian, improvisor and comedy writer who is an executive producer of the award winning short film 'Pop Pop is Dead,' available on Amazon Prime.