Revenue Rehab: It's like therapy, but for marketers
April 12, 2023

AI and Marketing: A Love Story in the Making

This week our host, Brandi Starr, is joined by Nicole Leffer, CMO AI Advisor at A. Catalyst, LLC.   A CMO AI Advisor and marketing strategist, Nicole is known for harnessing the power of AI to revolutionize marketing success.   Nicole is...

This week our host, Brandi Starr, is joined by Nicole Leffer, CMO AI Advisor at A. Catalyst, LLC.

A CMO AI Advisor and marketing strategist, Nicole is known for harnessing the power of AI to revolutionize marketing success.

Nicole is a pioneer in AI-driven marketing, with over a year and a half of hands-on experience deploying AI across content, performance, demand generation, social media, product marketing, and more. Her passion for empowering marketing teams with cutting-edge AI skills and strategies has established her as a trusted collaborator for tech CEOs, CMOs, VPs, and senior marketing and GTM leaders.

With a multifaceted background in SaaS, product-led growth, and e-commerce, Nicole offers valuable insights on integrating AI into workflows and maximizing its potential for results. Her track record of increasing revenue, user growth, and lead generation makes her expertise essential for organizations seeking to accelerate their AI transition and achieve their marketing goals.

In this week’s episode of Revenue Rehab, on the couch Brandi and Nicole dive into the complex and leading edge topic of generative AI-driven marketing in: AI and Marketing: A Love Story in the Making.

Bullet Points of Key Topics + Chapter Markers:

  • Topic #1 What is Generative AI? [05:54] Generative artificial intelligence (AI) can produce text, graphics, or other types of media in response to provided commands. They are tools which can be employed to assist marketers to expedite projects or tasks and in different ways than ever done before.
  • Topic #2 How can Marketers use Generative AI? [12:13] CMOs should approach using AI both conversationally and with multi-layered prompts, is the advice Nicole gives. “Sometimes the way I'll start a conversation is just being very direct”, Nicole shares, followed by adding in more prompts as the content is returned to her.
  • Topic #3 Limitations, Pitfalls and Training Generative AI [17:25] Nicole reminds CMOs that generative AI “is not a creator replacer.  It’s a content assister.”  When using this tool, you aren’t going to replace experts on topics she reminds listeners; “If you have somebody on staff who's a subject matter expert, they should be reviewing it”. 

So, What's the One Thing You Can Do Today?

The ‘One Thing’ Nicole encourages listeners to do today, is to take a piece of content they’ve already created and plug that into a generative AI tool, like Chat GPT, and have it “brainstorm with you new ideas of other things that you can create with that”.  She recommends it as a useful way to assess how the tool might work for future marketing goals, plans or initiatives.

Buzzword Banishment:

Nicole’s Buzzword to Banish is the phrase ‘prompt engineering’. “I think that that is just a term that scares people out of using these tools”, Nicole says, “and I want to stop talking about it in that way”.


Get in touch with Nicole Leffer on:

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Intro VO  00:05

Welcome to revenue rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita Brandi Starr

Brandi Starr  00:34

Hello, hello hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today, I am joined by Nicole Leffer. Nicole is a CMO AI advisor and marketing strategist known for harnessing the power of AI to revolutionize marketing success. A pioneer and AI driven marketing Nicola has over a year and a half hands on experience deploying AI across content performance, demand generation, social media, product marketing and more. Her passion for empowering marketing teams with cutting edge AI skills and strategies has established her as a trusted collaborator for tech CEOs, CMOs, VPS, and senior marketing and go to market leaders with a multifaceted background in SAS product led growth and E commerce. Nicole offers valuable insights on integrating AI into workflows and maximizing its potential for results. Her track record of increasing revenue user growth and lead generation makes her expertise essential for organizations seeking to accelerate their AI transition and achieve their marketing goals. Welcome to revenue rehab, Nicole, your session begins now.

Nicole Leffer  01:57

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I am

Brandi Starr  02:00

so excited to have you. I am like a kid in the candy store for our conversation today. But before we jump into that, I like to break the ice with a little Woosah moment that I call buzzword. banishment. So tell me which buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Nicole Leffer  02:21

Well, since we are talking about AI, I think I'm gonna have to say prompt engineering. I think that that is just a term that scares people out of using these tools. And I want to stop talking about it in that way.

Brandi Starr  02:34

I will take that because I can say as I have been on my AI journey only for a few months, that term did come across really scary. I saw someone on LinkedIn say like the key to like really mastering these tools is like great prompt engineering. And I'm like, Oh, well, maybe this is not for me. So I'm I'm with you there we can take out the scary words.

Nicole Leffer  03:04

We don't need to like gate this idea from anybody. You don't have to be an engineer, you don't have to be able to like code anything or do any kind of programming. And that term just really implies that it is more than just natural language communication, which is really all that prompt engineering is, at some point, like, let's just banish that from our vocabulary.

Brandi Starr  03:25

Awesome. Well, we will take that, lock it in the box and throw it away. And so now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today?

Nicole Leffer  03:35

Well, I'm just really excited to share with your community about all of the ways that AI can be used in marketing and go to market, because it is such an extraordinary, powerful tool that is really going to change the future of marketing and revenue in general within all of our companies. And I'm just really excited to chat with you about that today.

Brandi Starr  03:55

Yeah, all the AI tools have definitely been the hot topic lately. And I think at first it seems like you know, everything I was seeing people doing with chat TPT was all these just random kind of for fun things. And it was just kind of like, yeah, that looks cool. When I've got some free time that doesn't exist. I'll play with that. And then I started seeing people actually sharing real marketing use cases. And it's like, oh, this is something I need to be paying attention to. That can actually save me some of that precious time that I have. So very little love and improve the effectiveness. So I'm super, super excited to talk about this. And I believe in setting intentions, it gives us focus it gives us purpose and most important It gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect from our discussion today. So what is your intention? What would you like people to take away from today?

Nicole Leffer  04:56

I would like to spark some creativity and an experimental mindset for people. So I would really love everybody to come away going, I just want to go play and see what happens.

Brandi Starr  05:08

Awesome. I love that. And, you know, you think about as marketing leaders, a lot of times when you get to senior leadership, we have less opportunities to just play and be experimental. There's leading a team and, you know, preparing board decks and go to market strategy and like all of the things that need our attention. So we do get to be that kid and candy store at the playground or whatever analogy you want to use. With this new technology,

Nicole Leffer  05:39

we really dare. And it's also something cool, because if you've been doing marketing for a long time, most of the other stuff has been there for a long time, even though it's evolved in its own ways. This is a whole new ballgame that we're talking about now.

Brandi Starr  05:53

Awesome. So I will just jump right in for those people who have been hearing the buzz but don't really get this whole generative AI thing. Help summarize for me, what this is for marketing, like, what is generative AI doing for marketing departments as a

Nicole Leffer  06:15

whole? Yeah, so let's go back and just talk about what we're talking about when we say a generative AI, period, before we get into what it is for marketing. So essentially, there were these algorithms that went out and were trained on really massive amounts of data. So when I'm saying massive amounts of data, I'm talking like the entire internet, it consumed the entire Internet. And it learned what the entire internet said and droves patterns. And it's just really understanding all of this data. And now what's happening is these tools that are trained on all that data are able to actually answer questions and generate new content. So it can be marketing content, but it also can be strategies for us, it can be images, so these tools may have been trained on image databases, and now they can create actual alternatives to stock photography for us, that we can use our images. So it really is a computer programs that can do creation. Now these creations are content assisters creator assisters not create a replacers. And that is a huge distinction. These are not going to get rid of anybody on your team. They're just tools for people on your team to use to help them expedite getting things done faster, more creatively, and in different ways than they've ever done before. Okay, yeah,

Brandi Starr  07:31

that alluded to my second sort of fear is, you know, The Rise of the Machines AI is going to take over, it's going to put us all out of jobs. And I think I agree with you in that the reality is, it's really going to change our jobs, which in marketing, you think about marketing technology, specifically, just how much the evolution and availability of technology has changed marketing. This is something that goes beyond marketing is really changing everything.

Nicole Leffer  08:03

And the fear of taking our jobs, you know, I have it too. And it is a very valid fear. And I think it's human nature to have that. I think that there's a real validity to that. And the idea, if you do not learn how to adopt these technologies, if you resist it, and you refuse to use it, I think you are probably in the long term, probably not this week, but like, eventually you are putting yourself at risk because it's here, whether we really want it to be or not, it's here and it is something that is eventually going to be the norm. To use. It's almost similar to if you think back, like when calculators came out, a lot of people resisted using them. But now if you refuse to use a calculator to do math, and you have a math related job, you're not going to have a job for. So at some point, if you won't use the technology, it is going to affect your job. But as long as you are willing to adopt it, learn it and start deploying it, I think that you're gonna be just fine.

Brandi Starr  09:00

Awesome. So thinking about being a creator assister and really sparking ideas and that experimental mindset, can you give me some, you know, what are some of the use cases for marketers that you're seeing really effective, like helped me to think through? Like, if I'm trying to explore ideas, where do I start? What are some things that this can be used for?

Nicole Leffer  09:25

So the really cool thing is, there are endless opportunities for marketers if you are doing anything in marketing, there is a place to put the AI in but some of my favorite personal use cases are around content repurposing. So one of the things that I love doing is putting my content that I've already created into chat GPT and having that come up with new creative ideas of ways that I can leverage this content or spin off of this content. So what that can include is everything from you know, taking a kid A study that's in a PDF form and having it come up with a blog post outline that is rewriting this blog post and having a rewriting this case study into a blog post or turning it into LinkedIn posts, turning it into video scripts, all kinds of things. And it can be done almost instantaneously with some good prompting. So I love content repurposing. I love brainstorming with this technology. So using it to come up with new ideas to create new things, it can help you actually create the content. So you can create all of your social media posts with it, you can create all your blog posts with it even long form content, there are ways to use it to create and come up with social media calendars with it, content calendars with it. I love adapting existing met like content to new verticals and audiences. So if your company sells to lots of different verticals, and you have one basic message, you can put that message with these personas, and these descriptions of these different, you know, buyers and verticals in detached GPT with that content and have it recreate the content specifically geared towards all of these individual audiences. Which that's really cool. And then one of my favorite things to do is to record voice memos of content ideas, and it's just brain dump. So like, I'll just, you know, be on a walk and some inspiration will hit me I'll be like, I should write a blog post about this. And all the ideas are just in my head, I'll pull out my iPhone, record a voice memo. Talking about it brain dumping, it may not be coherent, come home, email it to myself, put it into a transcription AI tool, instantaneous transcription, put that into a tool like chat, GBT ask it to organize my thoughts into a coherent blog outline, and then write the blog post in my voice that I have turned it on, or turn it into a LinkedIn post for me, or turn it into a video script for me or whatever it is. But it's my ideas that I'm just using this technology to expedite turning into content,

Brandi Starr  12:13

which just, you know, sounds amazing. Like even as much as I've been researching and exploring myself, like even hearing you say that I'm like, Oh, I hadn't thought of that. I hadn't thought of that. Because I do the voice notes to myself, I do it a lot in the middle of the night. Like, I'll have an idea, keep me up. And I'll record it really quickly so that I can actually sleep. And so different things like that, that that are amazing ideas. And you mentioned chat GPT. And that, you know, chat GPT seems to be the gateway drug to all generative AI. And so I want to kind of start there, because I do think that for people who are you know, starting to get their feet wet. And to explore that that is a great place to start. There is a free version that you know, so low barrier to entry there. Let's talk about how we actually do this. And I don't want to dive too deep into the nitty gritty. But again, just thinking about, you know, we talked about we're tossing out prompt engineering. Yeah. So when we go talk to chat GPT. How do we start those conversations in a way that's going to give us something meaningful?

Nicole Leffer  13:33

Yeah. So it obviously is going to depend a little bit on what you're working on. Exactly. So you know, sometimes the way I'll start a conversation was just being very direct. Here's a transcript from a walk that I just went on voice memo and just literally communicating exactly what it is that I am giving to it, because I just want it to read and consume that and respond to me just like telling me when you've read this. So now I can give you more directions of what I want to do. Are there times I think about if I had any expert in the world working on this for me, who would that be? So maybe that would be a Google Ads copywriting expert that is an expert in writing ad copy that generates clicks and conversions to my you know, on my product. And so when I start that conversation, I'm going to tell chat GPT you are a Google copywriting Google Ads copywriting expert, that is this expert in XYZ and I will tell it exactly the role I want to play in this conversation. But you can't stop there you need to go okay, now. Now I've told you who you are. Here's the project we're going to work on. I'm going to give you my existing ad copy. And I want you to rewrite 15 variations of the headline that you think will perform better. And I'll copy and paste in all of the ad copy and give it to it and I'll go and now I want you to keep in mind this is the audience that I'm talking to and this is what I'm selling and by the way, here's my landing page copy. I'm gonna give it All of that in that conversation, then I'm gonna sign that in. And I'm gonna see and it's gonna come back with 15 different versions of that headline for me to potentially AB test against what I'm already using, and get to Facebook ads copywriter, maybe it's a landing page copywriter, you're going to want to specify exactly who you want to be doing that. And the amazing thing is, you get to pretend you have all these people on your team. And all the people on your team also get to pretend but they have all of these people working for them. So if you have a good copywriter, they can have you know, a Google Ads copywriter who is the best headline writer in the entire world, or the best, you know, keyword incorporator in the entire world, you could the sky is the limit, and chat GPT will play that persona and that role and give you information back as though that is what you were looking for. Or that is who it is,

Brandi Starr  15:57

as I say it sounds like we've just like solved the headcount problem, because now I've got unlimited AI on my team, I just because I know that that's what people are afraid of is headcount, because I got AI,

Nicole Leffer  16:12

it is so true. But here's the thing I do want everybody listening this to this to know is, you might have the best Google copywriter in the world or Facebook copywriter in the world, and they may also be a pathological liar. Because he and all of these tools, like every single one of these tools does have a little bit of an honesty issue. And so you have to be really aware of that, while you're working with these tools, no matter which one that you're working with, it will make things up it's called hallucinating and AI, it will make things up out of thin air and tell you these things as though it is 100% fact and it knows, and so you cannot rely on it as your researcher, you've got to fact check anything that it's coming up with and not assume that you actually truly have the best in the world that has thought through all of these things, like am I telling the truth, if I might make up offers in your ad copy, make sure you're reading your ad copy, because it might go well, I want something that's gonna convert, so I'm gonna give somebody 75% discount. Just be aware that there is this tendency to lie and lie with authority through these tools,

Brandi Starr  17:25

well, that it's like a little bit of a whoop stick to running a promo, um, you just touched on what I hear most often as the reason why people are hesitant to try out these tools. Is some of the fears around, is it giving me something accurate? Are we going to sound like robots? Are we plagiarizing? Or, you know, like, just all of the things that the kind of fears? And so how do we go into this just like what's our mindset? What's our approach to at least being confident that we can leverage these tools in an effective way that is not going to damage our brand.

Nicole Leffer  18:12

So I think the first thing is to go back to this mindset, but it is not a creator replacer it's a content assister. And to know the limitations, right, like you can be confident in what you're doing with it, if you know these limitations, and you account for them and what you're doing. So you don't use tat GPT or one of these tools as your research method, you're providing it the facts that you want to include in its you know, and just make sure that it hasn't said anything that you don't know to be true, as long as you're not trying to use it to make up factual information, you're not going to have an issue if you have it. If you have somebody on staff who's a subject matter expert, they shouldn't be reviewing it a lot of companies have that happening when they're creating content anyway, you just really need to make sure that they're reviewing it if it's made by chap GPT in any capacity. So the first thing is knowing that limitation around the honesty and going okay, if you're aware for it, you can account for it you don't need to be afraid of it because you know what happens it's a it's a risk if you don't make sure your team is aware that it may make up a research study and tell you it's true. Like if your team doesn't know that that kind of thing happens then it's risky but if everybody is aware of nothing's then you just go okay we better make sure it's true if it put it in there and maybe put your own content and for it to write based off of so your own ideas are really what it's writing from and the other fears around it. I think that is like the biggest one. The plagiarism fear is a I have once ever seen anything have any form of plagiarism and that was over a year ago when I've run it through a plagiarism detector and it was like not even really something I think would classify as plagiarized. I think the detector called it that but it was like A very common phrase that you know, like the sentence was something lots of people would say. But you can like Grammarly has a built in plagiarism detector, you can throw it in there, if you want to, you don't have to just assume that it's not plagiarized, you can tell there are ways to check that are not expensive to see if something is plagiarized. And then one of the other fears I hear a lot of people have is that like Google is going to punish me for this, I can tell you that Google has come out and said, We don't care if this is AI, we do not care. If you are creating with AI at all, it is not going to be punished in search results. All think that Microsoft AI, they haven't come out and said it. But like they own most of the open AI or a large portion of open AI, I think they're punishing people for using their own tools. It really is not something that you have to be worried about hitting you in the search factor. But again, you should be having some human editing. So people probably wouldn't even know it's AI to begin with. If you're training the AI on your voice, and you have humans editing it, you're not going to have an issue where it sounds like a robot, if you're creating, if you're giving a good input outputs, you're not going to have this generic content coming out of it. Yeah,

Brandi Starr  21:14

so let's dig into training AI a little bit, because you have you've used that term a few times here. And I had the pleasure of attending one of your amazing trainings a few weeks ago, and you shared some tips there that I wasn't familiar with, that I know that as I started experimenting, finding that voice, and sounding, you know, sounding like me or sounding like my company, that was the biggest challenge for me. And what I was doing was I was getting Chet GPT to, you know, generate some content. And then I was taking that, and editing to add in the voice and listening to your examples and seeing some of your sample outputs, I've now understand that I was still doing more work than I needed to be doing. So for those, especially those that are heads of marketing, if they you know, like thinking about my own team, as we adopt this, I need to make sure that I know how to teach them to train for our voice so that we get that consistency. So talk a bit about what that means.

Nicole Leffer  22:25

Yeah, so what I do is I have a prompt, but I have saved on you know, on my own computer that has it tells Chad GPT you are an AI system that trains other AI systems, and you're going to analyze the texts that I'm about to give you. And you're gonna write me a clear detailed description of the tone, the style and the voice of this text for the purpose of telling a another future AI system, how to talk like that. That's essentially what this prompt says. And so I use that prompt that I just always use, I don't believe in having a lot of canned prompts. But this is one that is a reusable prompt. I'll put it in there. Sometimes I'll edit it to say like, you know, to write LinkedIn posts in this way, or to write blog posts in this way. I always do a different one for different styles of writing. And so then what I've done is I've copied and pasted. I'll give it examples. So like I think so session you went to I used LinkedIn posts as an example. And I gave it five examples of LinkedIn posts, I picked ones that were really high engagement that I personally also really liked that I had used. And I put those under this prompt. So here's the text you're going to analyze and base this off of and then I paste in all of my examples. And then what Chad GBT does is it comes back. And it gives me this what's called a voice paragraph. It says, to write in the style of, you know, this writer, here's exactly how you should sound, what your tone should be, what your style should be. These are the kinds of examples you should use. Use humor, when but not too much humor, you know, it'll be very specific based on this text you then put. So I create these I have one for LinkedIn posts actually have a few for LinkedIn posts in different styles I like to write in, I haven't ripped blog posts, I haven't for website, copy. Each of those has been trained on that type of copy, when it gives me the output. Now I just have a Google Doc that has all of these different voice prompts that I have. And now I can drop it in whenever I'm going to create that kind of content. So if I create a blog post, I'll give it the directions and I will paste in the voice prompt that explains this is how you're going to write this blog post. When I do a LinkedIn post I posted the one this is gonna you're gonna write this LinkedIn post and for every single thing I post I have you know that I'm working on I give it that explicit direction, and it's gonna sound a lot more like me the editing is not going to be nearly as much to get it to be where I want it to be when I do

Brandi Starr  25:01

Okay, so thinking about being able to scale that across the team, working on those voice prompts, and then being able to share them so that everyone is kind of starting from those same voices can create that consistency across different people working in there own, you know, AI tools.

Nicole Leffer  25:21

And I also recommend doing similar I don't think we've shared this in the training you were on but doing similar to create like a persona prompt for each of your personas that you're talking to and a vertical prompt for, you know, every one of your verticals that you might serve. So now you're starting to put together when you want to create a new piece of content, you kind of a puzzle piece, and all of these pre made parts of your prompt, it's not one huge premade prompt. But I go, Okay, I want to write a blog post. And I want to talk to this persona. And I want to talk to this vertical. Now I just am going to copy, copy and paste these pre created snippets for each of those things. And that gets dropped into any prompts. So I'm writing a blog post, here's the voice description, here's who's going to read it. Here's who are you know who we're talking to. And here's what their industry is concerned about. Now I've given chatted up to that, along with my specific post directions, and you're getting some pretty personalized content out of it.

Brandi Starr  26:18

I love it. I love it. I love it. We titled this episode, a love story in the making. And you know which the title was generated by chat TPT. As I say, if no other time, I had to had to make sure to use it for this episode. So we've talked about all the amazing things, I want to shift gears and talk about the red flags. So you know, with anything, we like to go in eyes wide open. So are there any scenarios that we should not we talked about you got to research but beyond, you know, making sure to feed it the facts? Are there any scenarios where you should not be using chat GPT or AI tools?

Nicole Leffer  27:02

Don't do math with them? Today, um, you know, there, there's gonna be some plugins coming out that may allow you to start using math within charge GPT. But like, unless you're using like the Wolfram plugin, it may or may not be on your account. Yeah, it's, you know, it just depends for you personally, whether it's been added to your account. Yeah. But unless you know, you're using a plugin specifically designed to do math and go external to do really deep calculations, don't try to do math within these tools. They are writing generators, not mathematicians. And they will try to tell you two plus two equals 672. So that is one of the big things that is a huge nono, at least where generative AI is today. And I think the a couple of the other things like if you're starting to get into some of the image generation tools, I think you more just need to think about the ethics of what you are not doing with those images. And you know, make sure you're not doing something that is crossing any ethical boundaries more than anything.

Brandi Starr  28:09

Yeah, I think ethical marketing is always a consideration. Yeah, and it's funny, you bring up the thing with math, I have been, we're doing some recordings, we're working on a blinded case study to talk about some work we've done for a client. And I was trying to draw the parallel between their increase in revenue and their spend with us, like, basically, their spend with us has increased at a much slower rate versus the revenue that we've been able to help drive with marketing. And I put in all the numbers like this year was this this year, it was that I thought I put it in really clearly. And then I looked at the summary. And I was like, wait a minute, never spent that amount of money with us. And you know, it was like, yeah, when it you know, when they went from spending, you know, this amount to like $4 million. With tigernut. I was like, hold up this revenue. I tried different things that I was like, okay, even though I'm not asking it to do math, it was not even able to, like draw any connections between numbers, or even use the numbers in the the way that they were presented. So I did find I was like, Okay, I'll have to work that stuff in on my own.

Nicole Leffer  29:36

I would, I would venture to guess this tech is evolving so quickly, that like, in a week, this statement of don't do math. I find myself saying something. And then I'm like, Oh, well, that was wrong tomorrow. But I like what you just described with the Wolfram plugin and Chad GPT. Like, I think I could probably handle that. But like just regular chat. GPT I think that is definitely something The Ng, you just need to know, numbers on GPT. It can't count words like don't assume that like it counted the words correctly, anything like that, if it involves numbers counting, calculating in any way, shape or form, you know, you say this is your character limit, it's gonna laugh at you.


Brandi Starr  30:18

So I know and just, I know your advice on the limit pros. So if you want to say that, and then I'll ask my questions. Yeah, if anybody's never heard you, they know what you're referring to. Yeah. So

Nicole Leffer  30:30

Chad UBT has a tendency to talk a lot, sometimes more than you want to, to. Not always like, sometimes that's a great thing. But sometimes you really just want it to have a very direct, concise, straight to the point answer, especially if you're just asking for some type of a clear cut answer. And so if you use the words limit prose, just as a standalone sentence, at the end of your prompt, it will usually not always, it will be what what was it they said on the call, somebody commented 70%

Brandi Starr  31:00

of the time, it'll do it, it'll always do at 70% or

Nicole Leffer  31:06

80% of the time, but it will significantly shorten that output. So I do love using limit pros. And I did think of another limitation everybody needs to be aware of, what's that Chad GPT is only trained on the internet until September of 2021. That is really all of the open AI models have only been trained on the internet through September 2021, which means it does not know anything that has happened since September 2021. It does not go out and connect to the internet, if you put on a put a link in to it unless you're using the browsing extension specifically, which probably are if you're in the main model. And so you need to be aware of that it has like no idea what's actually going on the world right now, when you're creating your content with

Brandi Starr  31:51

which is really, really good to know like that. That's That's key context, you know, especially depending on what industry you're in, or what you're writing about. So my question in terms of length, so I know the limit pros works really, really well. Even just saying Be concise, tends to directionally help the fact that it doesn't recognize word counts. Is there are there is there any other advice on limits? So, you know, some blog posts can be 500 words, some blog posts can be 1500 words, like, you know, when you want more, is there any other direction that you can give on how to drive what the output is,

Nicole Leffer  32:38

I mean, if you want more, you could say be expansive, or, you know, be very descriptive. I mean, you're good, you might start getting responses that aren't quite what you're looking for in that. But overall, I think like, trying to just think of like an experiment with different ways to get your point across and not thinking of it strictly a number. So write long paragraphs or write short paragraphs, be concise or use flavorful language, you know, different ways that are going to imply what you're trying to get to, you can put that word count stuff in there, I just wouldn't assume that it is going to, you wouldn't even say write a short blog post versus write a long blog post, that's actually more likely to get your results in my experience than asking it to count the words would.

Brandi Starr  33:27

And so I think the big, the big lesson from everything that I'm hearing you saying is, in using natural language, it is very much, you've got to be really descriptive. And I think that's a little bit of the shift in mindset is the level of descriptiveness. You know, that you need, like, if I'm thinking about talking to my team, and I'm like, Okay, I need you to write some LinkedIn posts. We're targeting, you know, global manufacturers with this service. That's all I'm going to say. But he's not going to give me what I need with that little bit of detail.

Nicole Leffer  34:09

Now, if you were talking to a brand new employee straight out of college, who this is their first job in their first week at your company, and you're asking them to write LinkedIn posts, you would probably give them a little bit more context than your general team. And so I like thinking of Chad GVT as like the equivalent of that straight out of college, brand new first job employee at your company, because that's the amount of information you need to provide them with you don't take for granted that it's going to know anything that you actually want it to do.

Brandi Starr  34:41

And I think that's a really, really key point, especially as senior leaders, you know, most of the time, we aren't giving direction to that brand new person straight out of college. You know, there's at least another layer of management's there. And so thinking about it that way like that, you know, the first time I heard you say that gave me really good context of like, oh, this is why my prompts are not getting me what what I want, I'm talking as if I'm talking to someone on my team, who is very experienced, and I need to treat it like that junior person.

Nicole Leffer  35:22

And it can be confusing because you want to treat it like the junior person, while also telling it, it's the best in the world. Expert product marketer that has ever walked the face of the planet. Also, let me spell it out to you like you've never done this before in your life, all in the same

Brandi Starr  35:40

problem. That is a great lesson. And talking about our changes is just the first step and nothing changes if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the therapist will give the client some homework, but here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. So as we all are, you know, approaching this with creativity and an experimental mindset, can you give us our one thing? What's our one action item that anyone listening? Who is trying to be a part of that AI and marketing love story? What should they do,

Nicole Leffer  36:19

I want to say take either a piece of content that already exists, or a transcript from something that you've done, or record yourself voice memo and make a transcript of it, whatever it is, like put that into chat GPT and have it brainstorm with you new ideas of other things that you can create with that. I've I've marketing content, so we're talking marketing content, specifically, and then go through the whole process and see what happens if you actually execute with Chatzi beauty of making that and see if you can actually create a really cool piece of content with it, knowing that a human is going to have to edit it at some point and be involved in this process. But we take something that already exists and turn it into something now. I

Brandi Starr  37:09

love that as a first step, because I know that's how I started was was trying to, like I was stuck on how to like write something for a client, because it was really technical and not my area of expertise. And I was like, let me try and give it to chuck GPT and see, you know, see what I get out of it and started diving in, and then it like it really does open the floodgates of oh, it gave me that maybe I can do this. Let me try that. And I know I used to tell clients when we do software implementations, you know, have a, you know, eloquent date night or Marketo date night to just spend a few hours with your favorite snack and beverage playing in it. So I also think it's great to have a little chat GPT date night. And you know, just play around and see what you can get out of out of chat GBT that can be useful.

Nicole Leffer  38:04

Yes. And I will tell you like, I will play with charging PT on my couch. Because I'll just I just open the browser in my phone, you can use it on your phone, and you can just chat with it. And like you can learn a lot. And you know, we just started this conversation and you were talking about the initially you thought it was just for like personal fun stuff, you can actually learn a lot about using charity Beauty by using it for the personal fun stuff that all applies for marketing. So if you start learning how to communicate with it for the fun, goofy stuff, you actually can end up learning a heck of a lot about how to leverage AI in your professional life. So I've heard people that will do it with their kids on their phone to have their like create a bedtime story together, you know, come up with the concept for the bedtime story and then read it to their kids for bed. And so it's like a fun family thing, whether they actually are learning tattoo beauty in the process. You get lists of things on your refrigerator, how to brainstorm dinner ideas, and this might not seem like it's gonna help you with your marketing. But in all reality when I started learning it, I got on TPT I think the second day without. So I'm like a little bit of an early adopter on top jpg. The first things I did was go here's a list of things in my refrigerator, give me five recipe ideas, and then I would go okay, now tell me how to make that recipe. Well, can you change it and add this ingredient and I would just kind of direct it. That is how I learned how to make charge EBT write me a blog post or a LinkedIn post because here's the ingredients I want in my blog post. Now, you know, it was the same method. I didn't realize that's what I was learning at the time. But it all works the same way. So don't underestimate the value of just the play the date night could be fun stuff, not just marketing stuff, too.

Brandi Starr  39:57

Okay, well now I might have to let chat GPT figure out what I'm gonna make for dinner because I have not decided that yet today, they gave me

Nicole Leffer  40:04

a homemade hummus recipe last night that was great. This is all I have in my fridge that I can make it with what should I do when I came up with something?

Brandi Starr  40:16

That's amazing. Now I'm like, now my brain is going crazy of the ways I can use Changi PT to save my life at home. Awesome. I have had so so much fun with this discussion, Nicole. But that's our time for today. But before we go, tell our audience, how can they connect with you? And I know you are consulting on this topic. So give us a shameless plug, because I'm sure there are people listening who want to continue the conversation.

Nicole Leffer  40:53

Yeah, absolutely. So LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me. And my website is Nicole, which has all my contact info as well. So my website is a great place as well. But as far as the consulting I what I am doing is I will work with marketing teams. And I sit down usually with the CMO at first and we'll have a conversation about what their pain points are, what they're doing in their marketing already strategy, goals, all that fun stuff where their team is where their team is on AI. And then what I'll do is design a customer training for their team and come in and do a virtual training for their team to get them up to speed on their AI skills. So they can understand what to do with this technology, how to use it, how to leverage it what's really possible. And then I do have options as well to continue with a little bit more like personal hand holding as it is implemented. So beyond the training if somebody wants to continue, I also do have options that are just set webinars that we don't have to sit down with the CMO ahead of time, but that are just like the major basics for marketing teams to learn. But these are not super long term packages right now. I mean, like what I've been doing so far has been like really just coming in and supercharged and getting teams up to speed so that you can start taking advantage. And while my website does show everything as being marketing team related, I actually do do them for go to market teams as well. So if you wanted to do a combined marketing sales ces like anything like that, I can adjust my presentations to work because I am very well aware of how marketing, sales and customer success teams can use this technology as well.

Brandi Starr  42:36

Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to both your LinkedIn and your website in the show notes. So wherever you are listening or watching this podcast, you will be able to connect with Nicole. Well, thank you so so much for joining me. I have thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I don't think I can say that enough time.

Nicole Leffer  42:57

today. It's been great. I really enjoy it. I love talking about this. I'm just totally I just totally do. I use magic every time.

Brandi Starr  43:12

Well, thanks, everyone for joining us today. I hope that you have enjoyed my conversation with Nicole. I can't believe we're already at the end. We will see you next time.

Nicole Leffer  43:23

Thank you.

Outro VO  43:27

You've been listening to revenue rehab with your host Brandi Starr Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenue we have dot live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at revenue rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.

Nicole LefferProfile Photo

Nicole Leffer

CMO AI Advisor

Nicole Leffer is a CMO AI Advisor and marketing strategist known for harnessing the power of AI to revolutionize marketing success. A pioneer in AI-driven marketing, Nicole has over a year and a half of hands-on experience deploying AI across content, performance, demand generation, social media, product marketing, and more. Her passion for empowering marketing teams with cutting-edge AI skills and strategies has established her as a trusted collaborator for tech CEOs, CMOs, VPs, and senior marketing and GTM leaders.

With a multifaceted background in SaaS, product-led growth, and e-commerce, Nicole offers valuable insights on integrating AI into workflows and maximizing its potential for results. Her track record of increasing revenue, user growth, and lead generation makes her expertise essential for organizations seeking to accelerate their AI transition and achieve marketing goals.