The Ecosystem of Content: A Harmony of Strategy, Vision, and Brand Integrity

Intro VO  00:05

Welcome to Revenue Rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita Brandi Starr

Brandi Starr  00:34

Hello, hello hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Lindsey Hawkins. Lindsey is the founder and president of be more nimble consulting. She is a dynamic professional who combines her artistic background problem solving abilities and leadership acumen to create impactful results in the business world. Throughout her career, Lindsay has had the opportunity to work with some of the largest brands in the world, showcasing her expertise in the fields of art design and communication. Her involvement in the operations of creative content and digital transformations. For large IT training programs to Fortune 500 content ecosystems, demonstrates her versatility and adaptability across various industries. Today, Lindsay serves as a strategic leader of leaders capable of building and overseeing global teams. Lindsay, welcome to revenue rehab, your session begins now.

Lindsey Hawkins  01:42

Wonderful. Thanks for having me on.

Brandi Starr  01:44

I am so excited to talk to you and we are going to talk about one of my favorite topics. But before we do that, I like to break the ice with a little Gusau moments that I call buzzword. banishment. So tell me what buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Lindsey Hawkins  02:06

Scalability? Ah,

Brandi Starr  02:09

that one is a popular one. Why don't you like it?

Lindsey Hawkins  02:17

So when I hear someone asked me, What's the scalability in the context of when they ask because usually we actually, that's what irritates me, it's usually a sign of, they don't understand what they really need, or they don't know what's really asked me. That's, I've actually never had anyone asked that question. And it made sense why they were asking it. So most of the time, what they're really asking is, how can we make this more efficient or effective? I don't know what to do. Where do we start? That's probably what they want to ask. I only figured this out. Because when I tell them the answer, they never like it. And I realize they're either so out of control on their scale. All they do is throw money at things that are already too big. They've already scaled themselves to death, or they're smaller and not willing to fund what it would take to grow and scale. So it's kind of ironic, I never get asked that and think you're on it. It's always like, oh, boy, here we go. Yeah, as

Brandi Starr  03:15

I say, as consultants as well, one of the things that I learned first when I moved into consulting is your first job is figure out what people are actually asking. Because they're usually never asking what they actually say out loud. Like, those are some of those questions that are like, these are the questions to ask, and you sound smart. And it's like, let's go to that. And, you know, scale, like real scalability happens after the fact. It's like you figure out what you're doing right now, how do we scale that, but you got to solve the problem. You know, otherwise, you're scaling your problems, which,

Lindsey Hawkins  03:53

right,

Brandi Starr  03:54

good idea. Well, awesome. Now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today.

Lindsey Hawkins  04:07

So today, I want to talk about the ecosystem of content. And I know you already have this beautiful title, and I love this, but to talk about the harmony of it. And I love that the strategy of it the vision, and how to really enable brand integrity when you do it, right. So I'm something I'm absolutely fascinated with. I'm always been involved with content, whether it's creating it or distributing it or project or whatever it is, I love it. So but I realized as the more I go into this industry, the more I help clients, a lot of the problems have more to do with the culture and the communications. They have giant blind spots that they're not willing to, to look at our consider or may not realize they need to consider it as their way put it more fair, and then understanding all of this This is what it really takes to be a leader in the content management space. I get asked that a lot. Well, how do we become a leader? It's like, well, actually has more to do with your culture and your ability to communicate with each other than actually does with even the content. Which That's fascinating.

Brandi Starr  05:16

Yes, and I am definitely going to come back to that, because I have have some questions. I've read some of the things that you've posted various places, and I've seen some of your positions on culture and things like that. And so I definitely want to dig into that. But first, I believe in setting nations, it gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most important, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect from our conversation today. So I'd love to hear from you around what are your best hopes for our talk today.

Lindsey Hawkins  05:52

I hope that if if anyone's listening, and they're, they're struggling, or they need to get a handle on their content, overall, when I say content, I mean all of it, package designs, advertisements, you know, images going on ECAM channels. I hope that here and here, it's not a software problem, it's not an IT issue. I mean, those could be some things happening, but most likely has more to do with your ability to lead the culture of change, and communications and to be inclusive. So I really hope people walk away understanding that more by time we get on with our conversation today.

Brandi Starr  06:25

Awesome. And you kind of just hinted to this, but I want to ask the question. Anyway, I'd like to start a lot of my conversations in grounding in definitions. Because there's, you know, people interpret words so differently, especially in the marketing space. So I help you know, our listeners to understand when we say the ecosystem of content, what does that really mean? I love

Lindsey Hawkins  06:51

that question. This is important. Basic, right? So what that really means is, you are a company and you are launching a new product. And you need to visually brand that product, right? So someone has an idea, we're gonna do this. All right, great. There's your idea. You have your creative brief. And then someone goes and creates it, that's probably an agency or designer, they finish it, it gets approved, well, then it needs to be curated, are all the things made with that style. Okay, great. Now we need to distribute it. Now we need to archive it. Well, let's analyze it, how is it doing? Our audiences are responding to it. And then when we're going to sunset it, when is it done, and we take it off the market, that entire experience, from the ideal all the way to the final resting place of that content, logo, whatever it might be, right? That is a content ecosystem. And there's a lot involved from end to end. And it's pretty fascinating. And that's why I keep doing this.

Brandi Starr  07:55

Okay, and so I want to just kind of clarify as well, because I know in the marketing space, typically when we think about content, you know, I'm thinking about all of the assets that we use to market the product or service. So the white papers, the website, the digital ads, the you know, webinars, the the all of the things. And the way that you defined it overlaps quite a bit with what a lot of people look at as like product branding. And so are all of these things apart? Are they one thing? Or are we looking more at some of that true, like vision and brand identity when we're talking about content?

Lindsey Hawkins  08:42

So content can be all the things so if so, I'll I'll use an example. If you have a campaign, I like that you brought up copy, right? So if you have a campaign that you're launching, it's not just the actual product, it's also the written language, like, what's the copy you're putting in there. And then you have distribution to different channels. So one is on the product, like package design, one might be the website and all the little components, all those little components, the logo, the image of the guy holding something, the thing they're holding, all of those little things, they're all actually little pieces of content, which are assets, as you just put, and it can get overwhelming when you think about all of it that way. But all of those little things come together to make one cohesive campaign. Hopefully, distribute correctly. Did that answer your question?

Brandi Starr  09:36

Yes. And that is helpful. And this is again, why I always even when the terms seem commonplace, or you know, things that most people know, I always like to ground in definitions, because I do believe that the way you define the content ecosystem is much more broad than what I see most people think about Um, and you know, if I think of how I have personally use this term in the past, I think about the ecosystem in like, the layers of content for the buyers journey. And like, that's your whole ecosystem is we've got this top of funnel, middle funnel, bottom of funnel, but I have not thought about those little nuances in that way. And even though it's like, you do think about it, like if I think about if I'm making a white paper, and I'm choosing the image on the cover, or if we're going to use a graph, I am thinking about the things that you're saying, like, what is, you know, the guy running? What message is that sending like you think about those things. But when you talk about your content ecosystem, I don't think to talk about that. Like, it's almost like a selective consideration. It's normal. And so why does this matter? Why do we need to really think about our ecosystem at this granular of a level, because it does sound overwhelming, I know,

Lindsey Hawkins  11:08

it can be overwhelming. So the reason, the reason why I put it this way is because going back to actually the buzzword, I can't stand a lot what I'm saying what I realized over time, was that groups of people at these companies had a huge blind spot, and they weren't willing to do what it takes to actually be a leader and content management and what that it's but it really was simple. So one example is and I'll leave names and logos out of here, the best I can here is client comes to the team and says, Hey, we need more content on our Amazon page. And Amazon has very strict specs like and Walmart has specs, all these all of them, do they have expectations on what you can and can't put up there? Well, the marketer who came up with the idea and program manage the content collection, did not even consider digital shelf and does not even didn't even care to ask and maybe because they didn't know better. Hey, what what do you need for amazon.com, our biggest online retailer that we make the majority of our money off of just you know, that's honestly, that's normal. I see that happen all the time. And it's a disconnect. So this is where this person is at the beginning of the content ecosystem. This other team is somewhere in the middle towards the end. And what they end up doing is Reese restarting the whole engine. And they have to build their own creative brief and their own campaign just for online marketing for Amazon and Walmart or whatever they're on. And then they the company ends up spending a lot more money and resource and time to correct something that if they just spoke to each other, this would have been handled from the top. So that's where that's why I go into the details of the content ecosystem. Because there's a big fail that happens. And it's not intentional. No one's trying to do this to each other. It just, it's a lack of communication or understanding how to work more efficiently and effectively within this environment.

Brandi Starr  13:18

Yeah, and I love that because as you were talking and telling that example, my brain was going off of like, oh, yeah, that happened. And that happened. And, you know, very similar things. So not on a retail space. But even where you have the content team that plans for the year, these are all the assets that we're going to create. And then you know, I'm talking to the marketing team about the email nurture, you know, that has a purpose of accelerating velocity. And I'm like, Okay, what assets? Do they have, you know, do you have, and they're like, well, here's what we have. But all of these are on the website, or all of these are used in content syndication. And so it's like, okay, well, what do we have to use a nurturer? And they're like, Well, really nothing that with this purpose. It's like, okay, so nobody thought about this. And it is that same, you know, I talk in a lot of different contexts about the silos in organizations, but that is the nobody talked to each other to say, we need assets for content syndication, we need access for paid media, but we also need some stuff that is, you know, meant to accelerate velocity for those that are in the buying cycle. And so it is that same sort of thing. Like, this is a really big piece and no one's thinking about what we're going to do.

Lindsey Hawkins  14:38

Right, and no one's leading that connection of what we need to do.

Brandi Starr  14:44

And so I know the common thing I hear when I talk to people about why these silos exist, and I have one client where we are working diligently to try to close this very gap between the teams and And the biggest thing that keeps coming up is who's supposed to own this? Like, where does that roll live? Because we got a content team, we got to this team, we got to that team, you know, if you don't have a PMO organization, and then even still, usually when there's project managers, they're assigned to a project and not, you know, just the fact that all this stuff has to happen. What kind of role supports the whole ecosystem in a meaningful way? Like, where does that live?

Lindsey Hawkins  15:34

The Great question. So something that can be done. And when this happens, it things tend to be more successful, is to actually build a content governance council. Now, this governance, it would have a leader, okay, who is a subject matter expert in content management, or digital asset management, but doesn't necessarily have to be the person running digital asset management, it could, it could be a different role. Matter of fact, you could even treat it like a chair, and every year someone takes a turn at leading, but you need to have a leader that this if there's one mistake if I could stop, stop voting by committee, let someone lead the meeting. But my ask is to be very inclusive on who sits at that table. Do you have someone from the design team, the marketing team, the EECOM, team, sales team, procurement, legal? It you know PIM digital asset management, which a lot of people just call Damn, it be really intentional and really inclusive of who's at that table. This is incredibly powerful. So all it is, is a conversation, what once a month, it's a guided conversation, they might be something simple, like, hey, we need to have all of our product codes tagged in the dam so we can find our stuff. Okay, sure. Let's figure out how to do that. We'll put it in the taxonomy or something, or we'll tag Great. Hey, this actress has threatened to sue us because some of her images are still out. Okay, legal, you in the room? Great. Where's the contract? What's the geographical areas, we cannot post her imagery? Like these conversations, imagine if you just had a room of just inclusiveness once a month, how many lawsuits wouldn't happen? How many campaigns would go wonderfully and as smooth as possible. And then, you know, even corporate communications, you know, the our logos changing, I'll just come to this meeting and discuss it. And we'll update the systems accordingly across the company. So it's such a simple thing. But it's ironic, that it does feel like pulling teeth sometimes to get clients to go, let let this happen. And let let go of your own leadership, Team control and let the community who probably are, while they're their subject matter experts in each of their fields, let them come into one place and make decisions. It's remarkable. When that happens, it's a game changer.

Brandi Starr  18:11

I would definitely agree. And, you know, it always sounds so simple. But getting the right people in a room, whether real or virtual, to have the important conversations is the answer to so many business problems. And it's kind of like, you know, you totally solve world peace by this one thing, you know, over and over with different stakeholders, yet it doesn't actually happen. And so my last question on the kind of tactical, like, how do we make this happen is, how do we get? How do we get over some of those challenges of, you know, like, how do we determine who leads it? Everybody's always so busy? You know, you could end up with a million people as part of this conversation, if it's a large organization, like all the while all of why this is really difficult, like what do you say to that? How do you like just kind of say, this is the way we need to go and make that a direction that people can take?

Lindsey Hawkins  19:14

I appreciate that question. So this is the actual that's one of the hardest things I find to get done before I leave a client. What What I suggest and what I've seen be successful, is I'll actually myself at the team will go meet with the head of HR, and we'll ask them to change the job descriptions on particular roles and to include an expectation of content management or governance or will ask different regions or different departments. Who is your rising leader? Can they be an ambassador who sits at the governance council? So we you know, if we start to treat it as a as a badge of honor, and as an expectation in your role All that does help. I think also when, when the collective community and within that organization sees the value, so unfortunately, you can't do anything without bragging about it. So you have the governance council, but you then you need to send out a report that or a dashboard or show the progress of because of this conversation we're having, we're aware of these things, here's the risk, here's the success, here's metrics that are moving. So just prove it in the data so that if anyone leaves that council, they're replaced. Happily, because it's an opportunity. I do find though, the majority of these type of models, they're actually usually run by an outside source, they're usually run by a consultant, or a subject matter expert, who is brought in like, like a coach. The ones that don't work is they're siloed. They're just tunnel vision. They're only the damn team. Well, that's, that's not fair to ever all the content creators and users. So yeah. inclusiveness and intentional.

Brandi Starr  21:09

Okay, and what you're saying, it brings me back to something you said at the beginning around the culture of change in the company. Because as you're talking about this, and you know, talking about changing job descriptions, and having conversations with HR, and just the operational nature of what has to happen, like, this is a big change. And so having that culture of change and evolution, like, talk a bit about how you see that and why that's important.

Lindsey Hawkins  21:43

So, you know, this, as a consultant, you walk in every company has its own personality, I caught, you know, it's really what I'm talking about is probably culture, but it's like it breathes on its own, it doesn't matter about that the individual is lost in there somehow. And it's always amazing to me, but I'll pay close attention to the culture of that particular space, because as an outsider, I can see a lot faster than maybe they can. For example, there's one leader, it's a home supply store leader in the Atlanta area, who, a few years ago, decided to completely change their culture, and their approach to business and start to act like an IT firm. This was remarkable. A lot of us, including me, are like, Man, I don't know if that's gonna work. Well, it did. It did. And not only that, but it was. so eye opening to wow, if you just get your entire team to think differently, and to follow this different strategy, you could lead the way in this way. So fast forward, 10 years later, clients come to me, I want to be like them. Well, they completely changed their culture. And the leaders in the C suite lead that change, and it actually rippled all the way through. So the success you see today was a vision and intention, and a cultural change. And if you weren't on there on the bus, you were off the bus. So a lot of times I get asked like, I want to be like them, it's like, well, you, you are not enabling that culture style to even get close. So let's talk about what are your goals? What are you willing to change? How much control do you have? You know, to make that shift? I feel like I might have gone off the main base of the question. So bring it back.

Brandi Starr  23:41

Yeah, as I say, it has my wheels spinning. Because if we think about it, we started off talking about content. And when you think about where content fits in an org, especially, you know, my audience is revenue leaders, primarily heads of marketing, we think about content in a particular way. And then when you start talking about changing fundamentally, the culture of an organization, like if you had given me these two points prior to this conversation, and told me, they were gonna go together, I thought we might have started Happy Hour a little early. But as we are talking about this, I'm like, this is really intriguing to me in that it is really because if you think about the tone, the style, the types of content, the way we put things out, all of these sorts of things that does come back to that brand, the vision, the strategy of the organization, like the culture of the company, is so different, you know, even this podcast how we chose to do you know, this format in you know, different things. Like the fact that we don't edit and you know, chop it up, like that's a part of our company culture in just having honest, direct conversations about what's happening in business. If we had a different culture, we'd make different decisions about this audio visual content. And so I'm like really having an aha moment here as we're talking about this, because it it is two seemingly disconnected things. That now I'm like, this is why this is the way like, I'm, you know, I'm drinking the Kool Aid here, going, because I'm like, I'm totally, you know, I started getting lost in what my question is, like, these dots are connecting.

Lindsey Hawkins  25:48

I'll give you another example that really happened. Again, another large treat company, I'm really trying to be dedicated. They have different segments of the business that are all actually rather famous in their own right. What I realized, and again, stumbling consultant, you know, you get you kind of get punched in the face verbally, when you don't realize what triggers them. So we're in the room, and the person who's leading the initiative for digital asset management has brought us in to help with the change of it, the communications and proving it proving it's worth it. So getting like, what's the data report, we're gonna build and improve? Great. So they were in the treat the human treat part of the business. And I was like, great. I need to talk to the candy bar, which is different than the treat section, I need to talk to them. We're not going to include them. Hmm, isn't that one particular candy bar, your biggest seller in the entire world is actually worth you know, about 30% more than all of your other treat products? was happy with anything? Well, you know, I want to make sure that contents accurate. And distributed, right? Well, yeah, that teams just they're not going to be included. I'll be honest with you, I decided to take a risk, because I was an outsider. And I wouldn't talk to the candy bar person. And I included them. And it was worth it, it was a risk worth it. Because I got to kind of show this is gonna pay off. Well, it was noticed. And then another part of the business reached out and they do pet treats. Like, what are you guys doing over there? I noticed you're getting your stuff out faster to the EECOM, shelves, digital shelves, everyone calls him a EECOM. You know, as like, okay. So we that we brought them in and all sudden, it just went from this, we're not talking to each other to weekly phone calls, collaboration of leaders across this massive global company. And just that moment, I was so proud of them, of just soak, like we went from not talking to them to asking each other's opinions and learning from each other. And they, it was a, it was a game changer in revenue. Because they shared ideas with each other. And they I mean, they're killing it now. I'm so proud of them. They're killing it. But the it was not a software, it was not a you know, it was people talking to each other. That's actually what made it amazing. So it's, it's incredible. If you just if you really understand the content ecosystem has more to do with your ability to communicate and be inclusive. It's fascinating. Everything else is just tactical operations, you know how to do all that stuff? That's not That's not the hard part.

Brandi Starr  28:46

Yeah, and that is where I think most people start to like, if you ask, Where's the biggest problem in your content ecosystem? Those are the kinds of things that people point to, like, Oh, we don't have a content management system that manages production. So you know, we're managing timelines in a spreadsheet, that's our biggest problem. Or, you know, we outsource all of our writings. So we don't have someone that really knows the voice, like it's always or we don't have, you know, it's like, it's always a thing. That is more of that tactical operations. And not that you don't need to get tactical operations, right like that, you know, fundamentally, that's where that scalability comes in. Right? Tactical Operations. But it is that it is that really, you know, it's just going back to the title of the episode, that harmony between the strategy, the vision and the brand integrity.

Lindsey Hawkins  29:48

Yeah, I actually, so this part I'm talking about now with the culture and communication. I feel like you got to get this aligned first, and then you can get real like you have impressive with your tactics and operations. But you won't get very far if you don't correct the cultural approach first. So this is always what I look at first thing was to culture who's talking to each other? Who's not talking to each other? Who are they surprised to hear me say invite to the table, I have to address that first before we can even get into the how, and the tactics because at that part, it doesn't change much. It's just a matter of volume versus need versus timing.

Brandi Starr  30:28

Yeah, cuz that connectedness of the people, then creates the connectedness of the content and the message. And that is what leads to the revenue. Like, that's when your ideal customer, they see they see themselves in the stories that you're telling, they see their problems being solved by whatever you sell, like. And so it becomes a very natural, like, that's where you get happy salespeople, because, you know, they have to work less hard. In making the sale, they've got the right tools. I really, really love this, like, it's always great when I have these conversations and kind of get stumped in my questions, because I'm internalizing the ideas, that's always a win for me, because it is definitely a different thought process that just based on my own experience can make such a huge difference.

Lindsey Hawkins  31:31

I have an extra guest I was not expecting in my room, everyone, this is pumpkin.

Brandi Starr  31:36

Great to meet you, pumpkin. A little bit of an opinion on the content system as well. We always love the special guest. Unexpected. Great all to feature pumpkin the celebrity celebrity guests on revenue have. To funny Well, I would say talking about our challenges is just the first step. And nothing changes if nothing changes. And so, you know, assuming I am a listener, and this conversation has really resonated with me. Where do we go from here, like in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but you're at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on his head and ask you to give us some homework. So what is your one thing like if we're really trying to, you know, get our culture together? You know, get that that harmonious ecosystem of content? Where do we start?

Lindsey Hawkins  32:44

If I could simplify it, stop blaming, and start being curious. So a lot of times I'll hear it's the agency's fault. It's the software's fault. It's it is fault. Maybe it is, and maybe it's absolutely not. Start being curious, asking more questions and truly be collaborative. If you take out your own personal, whatever your hangups are about, what anything? And what is best for this business? What's going to move this business forward? Are we reusing content? Is the agency giving us the content? Do we have the right tools in place to be successful? It just start to be more collaborative. Ask more questions. Be curious. So now boiling it down to curious and collaborative. There you go.

Brandi Starr  33:33

There we go. So I would say, you know, kind of take a self assessment. So some of those questions you're asking. That's the curious part. And then I would also say challenging people, like based on your story about the the treat company, challenge yourself to think about, who could you benefit from collaborating with today, that you generally avoid? And you know, even thinking about some of my, you know, old companies and roles that I've had like, going back a couple companies, I'm like, Oh, that would be such and such. Like, I'm still having those moments of like, who that person would be. So I do think that that that is a great place to start in really trying to approach this and just changing the mindset around how we think about our content ecosystem and what it takes to get that right, I think can be a game changer. So Lindsey, I have enjoyed our discussion. So so much, but that's our time for today. And so before we go, how can our audience stay connected with you? And I'd love to hear your shameless plug for be more nimble because it sounds like you are doing some amazing work for some large brands. So, you know, tell us how we can connect it and what it looks like to work with you.

Lindsey Hawkins  34:58

Sure, sure. So I'm super proud to be the founder and president starting off this new adventure. So if you want to reach out and have a geek out about content and how you're how you're getting along the some change management or with your huge digital transformation problems, we can help shorten that pain. So you can reach out to me, Lindsey Hawkins, you can find me on LinkedIn, or go to our website at be more nimble.com. And let's have a chat. See how we can help you.

Brandi Starr  35:27

Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to both be more nimble and your LinkedIn. So wherever you are watching or listening this podcast, check the show notes and you can connect with Lindsey. Well, I hope everyone has enjoyed my conversation with Lindsay. I can't believe we are already at the end.

Lindsey Hawkins  35:48

I know I went by so fast. Thank you. I know. This is this is a blast. And we'll have our own happy hour or some other time.

Brandi Starr  35:55

Yes, definitely always love when I have guest in Atlanta and we can get together in real life. So for everyone listening, thanks for joining us, and I will see you next time.

Intro VO  36:11

You've been listening to Revenue Rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenue we have dot live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at revenue rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.