AI Isn't Fixing Workplace Burnout, It's Actually Making It Worse For Women Leaders.

Brandi Starr [00:00:35]:
Welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host, Brandi Starr, and we have another amazing episode for you today. So AI was supposed to make work easier, automating tasks, reducing stress. But for many leaders, especially women, it is doing the opposite. Instead of easing workloads, AI is raising expectations, accelerating demands, and leaving the emotional labor, the real human work, squarely on their shoulders. And so the result is the workforce is running faster but burning out quicker. And while AI optimizes output, leaders are really left carrying the weight that machines can't. And so today we are digging into a critical question, which is AI Is AI quietly setting your team and your revenue up to fail? Today I am thrilled to be joined by Dr.

Brandi Starr [00:01:34]:
Julie Donely. Julie is a leadership expert, author and workplace stress researcher with nearly 30 years of experience helping professionals navigate high pressure environments. Her latest book, Leading at the Speed of People, explores how leaders can adapt to the new AI driven workplace without burning out. Welcome to Revenue Rehab. Your session begins now.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:02:04]:
Hi, Brandi, how are you? It's good to see you.

Brandi Starr [00:02:07]:
I am excited to talk to you. I am doing great. And you know, our topic today is definitely something that people are feeling. But before we dive into that, our industry loves its jargon and fancy buzzwords and let's, you know, be honest, most of them are just fluff and can hold us back. And so I'd love to hear from you. What buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Dr. Julie Donely [00:02:39]:
Well, it's not a buzzword as much as it is just fluff. And that's the really, really, really any kind of like ultra adjective that is just not necessary. I'm more of a direct shooter when it comes to speaking. And so that would be one thing that I just, especially as women, we need to just get to the point.

Brandi Starr [00:03:05]:
I mean, you know, for some people, it is really, really, really, really hard to stop saying really exactly.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:03:15]:
It doesn't add any, it doesn't add any value and it detracts from our power in our communication. So anything like that, very, very. Or, you know, but really it's just overused.

Brandi Starr [00:03:29]:
I agree and I will try really hard to not use that one during our conversation. So now that we've gotten that off our chest, let's transition into this topic today because I have heard the grumblings already of how people are excited about AI, but it's almost like it has become another job in staying current and figuring out how it impacts their team, their business, their, you know, all of the things. And it's like this aspect of AI, I feel like, is misunderstood and in more cases, overlooked. And so my first question is, we know that AI is supposed to reduce workplace stress, but I know you argue that it's making burnout worse. And so I'd love to hear your thoughts behind that.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:04:26]:
Yeah, there's a couple. Thanks, Brandi. There's a couple things, the first of which is any change, and this is a huge change, places stress on individuals because we don't know it. There's fear, fear of the unknown, fear of change itself. Like, I can't do what I used to do anymore. I have to learn this new thing. And that learning can be fearful for people. So there's all this stuff going on just because it's change and there's a lot of unknown, and that's scary.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:04:57]:
The second piece to that is what you have mentioned in the introduction, and that is that the one thing that AI cannot do, at least not yet, is the emotional labor. And so we still have to deal with people. It doesn't help us with politics, conflict, team building. All of those things that make us human haven't changed and won't change with AI. And so AI is an additional workload that does not replace just all the human aspects. And it's so time consuming. The human aspects are so time consuming. And learning this new thing is time consuming.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:05:41]:
So there you go.

Brandi Starr [00:05:44]:
And here's where I would. It's like, I both agree and see some places where I do see AI helping with that. And, you know, one of the things like going through leadership training and things like that, you learn about, you know, emotional intelligence and the difference between people on your team and how they receive information and. And I know I can't remember the exact details, but one of the things we learned is that some people receive things more from an emotional standpoint. Some are more. I want the facts and, you know, you can talk to them that way. And one place that I have actually seen AI helping with that human element is allowing us to adapt to the way that other people are in our communication. So I am very matter of fact.

Brandi Starr [00:06:39]:
You know, generally it's hard to get a lot of emotion out of me, but where I know someone needs more of that nurturing and, you know, that more emotional component, I can Say to chat, GBT or Claude or whatever. Here's the message I need to deliver. Here is the tone in which I'm trying to deliver it. How do I convey this in a way that helps them? And I know I've been able to tap into it to make it easier for me to communicate in a way that's not natural for me. And so I see the. There's a lot of human and the change component, but then I do see some ways where it allows us to adapt. And so I'd love to hear your thoughts there.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:07:26]:
Yeah, and you're absolutely right. There are some great things happening with just even bantering with someone or something, you know, back and forth. You have a tricky situation, how you might handle it. You can use AI to help you with that. There are lots of fun ways to use AI with scheduling that can be very helpful. And what you said, how do I rephrase what I want to say in a way that would be most effective? And all of those are great. And that's the hope is that we can use AI to help support us in achieving the results that we want. Some of the problems, however, are people fearing even getting on the bandwagon with AI.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:08:15]:
There are a lot of people that haven't even begun to look at it. And so. And they fear that if. And the. There's a couple things. The other thing about women in particular is we are always. Many of us feel that we have to prove ourselves. And so if we use AI to assist us, does that mean we're cheating? Men don't think that way, but a lot of women do.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:08:42]:
Not saying all of us, but obviously it's generalization. So while I agree with you 100%, as long as you're somebody that will give it a try. So sometimes using technology in a new way can be scary. And if you haven't, if you're not one who embraces change or who was the last one to move from a flip phone to a smartphone. We still see people with those flip phones. Then, you know, what are you. Your struggle is actually holding you back from being able to embrace some of these things. So you're right.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:09:21]:
There are some great advancements. They are, they're looking at and researching ways that AI could be used for therapy. So to give people more access to the mental health, mental health professionals. So there are lots of things, ways in which AI can be really helpful and we have to be willing to try it and see what we can make of it for ourselves.

Brandi Starr [00:09:51]:
Okay, and so what is the most damaging myth about AI and workplace burnout that you're seeing?

Dr. Julie Donely [00:10:01]:
That's a good question. I think it's that it's going to replace us, that AI is going to do away with our jobs and it's more effective than, I mean, people have to use AI to be able to produce results. And so it's going to change how things work, but it's not going to replace humans.

Brandi Starr [00:10:34]:
Yeah, and I do think that that is one that comes up so often right now is, you know, you see all the headlines and LinkedIn posts and you know, it's a bit of a scare tactic almost to try to get those people who are laggards in adopting AI. It's, it's almost like scaring them into it, which doesn't feel like the best approach. Like it is important that everyone, you know, really lean in and start to understand because it is changing so much. But I do agree, like, that AI is going to take your job is not the right framing.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:11:16]:
It's about partnering with AI in and, and I think this is what one thing that people can do to reduce the stress. You don't have to know everything there is to know about AI. You just need to know how can you use it, how can it help you in your current role? Not everything, every role, but just in your current role. And there are a lot of things happening, but you don't need to know all those. You just need to know how it might be able to help you in the role that you're in. Like you gave a great example. If you're not great at communicating via email in a way that people can really understand using an AI feature, Claude chat, whatever one that you prefer, Bard, to rephrase that, that's going to be really great for you if, if you're allowed at your workplace. Some workplaces don't allow it, but that's going to be really helpful.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:12:16]:
And it's really, you're demonstrating how to best use it in your workplace and you're taking pride in how you communicate. So there are lots of positives to that. And so I think that that's one of the big things that people can do to reduce their stress. Just find a way that it can support you in your life. So if you're a parent and you got three kids and they're all going to different, you know, practices after school and you only have so many, so many places you know where to be and just structuring that AI can help with that. There's tools for that. So maybe that's something that you look into, just finding that one thing that you can do to play, rather than looking at it as this big monster of a job that helps. Again, it's just about reducing the stress and finding ways to introduce yourself to this new technology that can support you in being more effective and efficient in your life in ways that we can't even.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:13:18]:
We can only. Well, some people are imagining the future, so. So that would be one thing that I would tell people to do.

Brandi Starr [00:13:27]:
Okay.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:13:28]:
Yeah.

Brandi Starr [00:13:28]:
And I definitely think starting with a low stakes use case of, you know, not the thing that if it's goes wrong, it's gonna, you know, everything's gonna fall apart. Starrt with something simple is great. I want to back up a little bit and go back to the emotional labor component, especially for leaders and those that are trying to guide a team, they're trying to figure all the things out. Like how. Talk to me more about that emotional labor, the human work, that piece that so many people are not thinking about.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:14:09]:
Yeah. So anytime that you're thinking about how to approach a person, a situation, all of the editing that we do, the adapting, you know, in this meeting, I need to show up in this way, but with this person, I need to show up in this way. All of that is emotional labor. And it's exhausting. It's just exhausting by the end of the day. And we're human, and that's what humans are. We're emotional beings, we're social beings. And that emotional intelligence is required to be socially adept.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:14:47]:
And so leaders need time to adjust for that and to give themselves time and grace for being supportive, being able to adapt and adjust themselves for their different situations. I think just recognizing it and naming it as labor. Yes, it is work. It requires work and time and attention. Just like if you were going to start with an AI project that requires time, attention and work. And we dismiss emotional labor as not being important. It's huge. It's huge.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:15:27]:
And it's not going away with AI. AI can assist us in some ways, but we still have to navigate those relationships, and that's something that we have to learn how to do.

Brandi Starr [00:15:44]:
What's the wrong way to approach integrating AI and how is that affecting workplace well being?

Dr. Julie Donely [00:15:53]:
Well, I think the wrong way to integrate AI is to tell people, use AI, not give them any. They need training, they need boundaries, they need policies and procedures. When can I use AI? What can I use it for, what can I not use it for? And then train them. And then leaders can reinforce the training and offer support and a place for them to ask questions without having guardrails, then it can be really messy and scary and companies can get themselves in trouble. So if you don't have guardrails, people could be using it for any number of things. Just like social media, right? There are rules around the use of social media in different workplaces, and so the same thing is needed here. So a company who just. Who doesn't do that and doesn't train, doesn't use guardrails, doesn't provide instruction, they're gonna.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:16:51]:
They're gonna have problems.

Brandi Starr [00:16:54]:
Okay? And I definitely agree there. The pushback that I have heard repeatedly is that everything with AI is moving so fast that organizations trying to put guardrails in place and more than the guardrails trying to put training in place, they don't feel like they can keep up. So, you know, if you think about social media, it was sort of like, you know, we saw social really being used just by individuals communicating with people they knew. And it kind of slowly evolved into a place where businesses were leveraging social and there already was more of a history, so to speak, to start from, there were fewer tools to train people on. Like, it was a lot easier to set those boundaries and make sure that people are properly trained. And now even looking at, you know, just at one point, you know, the common tools couldn't access the Internet. Now they can. At one point they couldn't do anything with imagery.

Brandi Starr [00:18:07]:
Now they can. It's like all of these things. It's like if you set guardrails for the rules of engagement today, those rules are outdated by tomorrow. And other than small organizations, most companies can't keep up. And that's where they are seeing things kind of go off the rails to. To be a little extra dramatic. And so what do you say to those people who are like, yeah, I hear you, we need guardrails and training, but how do we keep up?

Dr. Julie Donely [00:18:40]:
Yeah, and your example of using social media is a good one. There are social media experts that these companies now hire because they can't do it. So they bring in someone to run their department. And the ones I have coached, some of those, they're young because they know this stuff. Right. And so it's not the company, but they're going to have to find a way to put something, someone or a group of someones in charge of leading that process within the organization. There. There just has to be a strategy for it.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:19:17]:
And. But you're right, you run the risk of slowing things down. That doesn't mean that you, that you don't need some guardrails, some guidelines to give people. And if you know there are going to be those people in your organization that the ones who pick it up the quickest and they just want to, the creative ones, then maybe you create a think tank that enables them to learn everything they need to learn about your industry, what you do, so that they can instruct or provide instruction to the organization. I don't have the answer. But when you don't have anything and then you expect people to use AI wisely and cautiously, they can't do that without some expectations being given to them.

Brandi Starr [00:20:17]:
That's a good point. And I do like the idea of tapping those who are naturally early adopters and very curious and being able to leverage them to help to push things forward. I definitely am a fan of bringing in third party experts who can help the org move faster and have the right expertise. I want to get back to something else you said early on is that this is impacting women leaders even more. So it's one of those things that's impacting everyone but taking a greater toll on women. And I'd love to hear your perspective on that.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:21:02]:
Yeah, there are some statistics on women not using AI as much. So one of the risks is that if AI is generative and it learns as it goes and women are not using it as much as men, then it is learning from the people that are using it. So that is a problem. And of course worldwide there are many cultures that don't have the access that we have, which their voices aren't being included in the generations of AI. And so, and I think the other piece of that is just the opportunity. What opportunities do women have in their workplaces to adopt AI? How fearful are they of change of technology and how willing are they to take the leap and dive in and choose it, you know, choose to use it and find ways to use it. So we need women to step up and start using it and talking about it and being involved in some of these things and they're doing so, but at a slower pace than them, which is part of the problem that we're experiencing, at least right now.

Brandi Starr [00:22:23]:
Yeah, and I think there's, you know, you hit on a couple pieces because one, thinking about the technology itself, if the voices that are helping to train and iterate it are, you know, of just one group, you are then creating big gaps in the learning. You can create bias and all of those things. And then I also think there's a just natural inclination for women to Take on more of that emotional component and stress that comes along with the change management that you talked about earlier, especially when the change is rapid. Are you seeing that across organizations that you've worked with before as well?

Dr. Julie Donely [00:23:06]:
Yes. And, you know, I just want to speak to that. The issue here, I think women are naturally more competent, more capable of navigating emotions and emotional conversations and taking on the emotional labor. The problem isn't that we do it, it's that it's not valued in the same way as other skills, and it needs to be because it is time consuming. So if we're spending more time navigating these tricky situations, then we're not spending that time learning AI and helping to navigate or learn new things. And so, so that could be in our. Not in our favor. So there.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:23:58]:
So that. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Brandi Starr [00:24:00]:
No, no, I just, it was, I was verbally digesting what you were saying because I do think that that is a really key piece. And, you know, the, the human element of AI. And, you know, I hadn't really thought about it really from a change management perspective, but it's like that is the big thing that's happening. Like all of the fear, uncertainty, you know, the extra level of effort and emotional component and all of that that happens with any sort of major change is now happening repeatedly and at lightning speed as a result of AI. And it, it's, you know, you talked about the mental health piece, and I do love that AI is bringing, you know, the mental health capabilities to more or services. I don't know the right word there, but it is, it does take a bit of toll on you. And I was just having a conversation. It happened to be a group of women, but there may be men who feel this way as well.

Brandi Starr [00:25:11]:
And the sentiment amongst several of the people in the conversation was that AI is actually increasing their imposter syndrome in that natural am I good enough? Do I compare? And now because of speed at which, you know, things are moving, it is like heightening. Whereas, you know, from my perspective, like, I feel like it should close the gap because we now, I won't say level, but we now have access, a more level amount of access, at least in the United States, where most people have, you know, access to some form of tools. It's like gained knowledge. And to me, it should reduce that imposter syndrome and help to bring a level of confidence. But in the conversations I'm hearing, it's having the opposite effect.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:26:10]:
Yeah, that's interesting. And it just goes to show you that it's really important not to compare yourself with others, but to compare yourself with yourself and how well you are doing. It goes back to how are you able to use AI and integrate it into your situation to help you. When we compare ourselves to others, then that makes it more difficult and everybody's going to be at different places in their just adopting AI strategies. We can listen, but comparing is really an enemy of ours. It doesn't help us. The other thought that I had while you were speaking was the whole question about ethics. So if I write something and I have AI edited, is that ethical? And so that's a question, which is why, again, just getting back to guardrails, there are some, what if I don't write it and I just tell AI to write it? Is that.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:27:13]:
Is that going to be acceptable within the context of that work? I don't. It could be. Right. Create a learning manual that teaches XYZ might be appropriate. And so all of these things are things that are concerning. Right. If you're so reliant on AI, it's almost like the calculator, the invention of the calculator. People forget math because they just use the calculator.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:27:40]:
So it's like, do we. Is there a concern that we're just going to give over everything to robots or to artificial intelligence? And that's where each of us has a responsibility to continue. I don't want to not think. I like. I like thinking of new ideas and I like, for me as a writer, as an author, I like partnering with someone who can take my stuff and take my thoughts and maybe put them together in a different way. And yet I know. And, you know, if you've ever used AI, it takes out your personality. So you have to infuse your personality into anything that AI delivers.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:28:23]:
So, yeah, I mean, I think the question with anyone thinking about whether they're an imposter is what are you really fearful of? And what is it that it's questioning your value? And so it goes back to what is it that you have to offer? And we all have so much to offer, so it's grounding ourselves in that rather than just taking this leap and questioning ourselves when unnecessarily questioning ourselves, you, you, we each have value now it's going back to those basics, what is it that I offer? And remembering that AI doesn't operate unless we give it instructions.

Brandi Starr [00:29:08]:
Well, we're getting into agentic AI, and some of that's going to work on its own. But that, you know, that's a different.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:29:15]:
Topic the Next Generation.

Brandi Starr [00:29:20]:
So we've talked about the problem, now it's time to fix it. Welcome to the Lightning round. And so this is our Fast answers only four questions. The goal is to leave our listeners with actions they can take right now to start making an impact. So first question, finish this sentence. If your company has an AI usage problem, the first thing you should do is.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:29:50]:
Identify how you want them to use it.

Brandi Starr [00:29:53]:
Okay, what's one red flag that signals a company is experiencing AI related burnout but might not realize it yet?

Dr. Julie Donely [00:30:06]:
Well, the people people are becoming irritable, productivity is going down and your morale is going down.

Brandi Starr [00:30:16]:
What should leaders do differently to ensure AI helps rather than hurts their team?

Dr. Julie Donely [00:30:24]:
They need to check in with their team members to take a pulse as to where they are and what their needs are in relation to AI.

Brandi Starr [00:30:34]:
And what's the fastest action companies trying to prevent burnout in AI era can take take today to make progress.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:30:50]:
There's a couple but I'll stick with one. I would say check in with your people and make sure that they're managing things well, that they have the training that they need or the instruction or guidance that they need and the support that they need and the permission potentially that they need to be able to use AI in a way that supports the organization's goals.

Brandi Starr [00:31:13]:
Awesome. Every good session ends with a plan for progress because talking about the challenge won't fix it. So Julie, I have really enjoyed our conversation and before we go tell our audience how they can connect with you and definitely do the shameless plug for the book.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:31:33]:
Yeah. Thank you so much. Yes, I have resources on my website so you can Visit me there. https://drjuliedonley.com/ you can also subscribe to my YouTube channel. I'm on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn. Leading at the Speed of People is available everywhere. Books are sold on Amazon.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:31:50]:
They I only have five star reviews so people are really enjoying it and I just want an award for that. So so pick up your copy today and reach out to me if I can support you in some way as a leadership coach. This is what I do. I help people adjust and go through change and present themselves powerfully in their leadership roles. So thank you again so much for having me today Brandi. Appreciate you.

Brandi Starr [00:32:17]:
You are welcome. We will link to your social channels as well as the books. So wherever you are listening or watching this podcast, check the show notes so that you can stay connected and continue the learning from Dr. Julie Donely. Well, thank you so so much for joining me. I have truly enjoyed the discussion.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:32:40]:
Thank you again. Appreciate being here.

Brandi Starr [00:32:42]:
Awesome. Thanks, everyone, for joining me. I can't believe we're at the end. Until next time.

Dr. Julie Donely [00:32:47]:
Bye.

Brandi Starr [00:32:48]:
Bye.