Two Leaders, One Vision: The CEO & CMO Alliance That Transformed a Brand

Intro VO  00:05

Welcome to revenue rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita Brandi Starr.

Brandi Starr  00:34

Hello, hello hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today, I am joined by a return guest of Anita Gulati of Anita is a b2b enterprise marketing executive with experience leading revenue based marketing organizations that deliver new business pipeline and expand footprint within the customer base. Also a change change agent of needed leverages data technology and analytics to deliver successful scalable marketing programs that drive company growth as needed, empowers and motivates teams by creating a culture of innovation and growth to support the company's evolution. Welcome to revenue rehab, your session begins now. So welcome back to the couch.

Avnita Gualti  01:27

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.

Brandi Starr  01:32

Yes, I was gonna say it's been a while I was gonna say you were one of my early guests. So for those listening after you finish this episode, hop on back to Episode 10, where I talked to Anita the first time around. But before we get into our topic today, you know, I like to break the ice with a little Woosah moment that I called buzzword. banishment. So what buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Avnita Gualti  01:59

Now, it's funny you ask that because that is the topic I've been struggling with the most in preparation for this conversation. I was like, which one are the list should I pick? So here's my top one that's very pertinent to my current role is it's a thing that marketing delivers, but it's called a one pager. Everybody's like marketing. Can you give me a one pager? Like, what's a one pager? Like? Are we talking about a brochure a case study? A write up about something a differentiator? What's a one pager? So I've been struggling with that. And every time I hear that word, I want to know more rather than just give me a one pager? What's the purpose of it?

Brandi Starr  02:40

Yeah, I am with you on that, because there is no universal definition. And quite often, I have heard people use that as a way to say, give me a summary of something and they don't even want a document, it's like, it's almost like saying, Give me the Cliff Notes of whatever, like, they just want the highlights or you know, a summary, but they call it a one pager. And it's not even always a document. So I'm with you on that one. We will put one pagers in the box, put a lock and a key, and we will toss it out, at least for this discussion. Sounds great. Awesome. So now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today.

Avnita Gualti  03:24

So thanks for having me. And one of the topics I want to talk about is I recently joined a company about a year ago, it's coming up on a year. And as a fresh cmo in the market. At this company, I want to share some of the things that I've been able to drive in collaboration with my CEO, which has been really powerful. And before it becomes dated, or it's like, oh, that's something I can do. And it's easy. I just wanted to kind of recap, things that I've learned for some of the folks that are considering getting into a CMO seat. So it's fresh, and it's pertinent.

Brandi Starr  03:58

That's exciting. Because I know a few months ago, I was reading an article that was talking about the divide between CEOs and CMOS, and how that divide seems to be growing. So really excited to give us a success story and hear you know what you've been able to do. But before we dive in, I believe in setting intentions, it gives us focus, it gives us purpose and most importantly, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect from our discussions. So for the heads of marketing, listening, you know, what would you like them to take away from our discussion?

Avnita Gualti  04:36

One of the important things is the role of a CMO, Head of Marketing, we'd be marketing the function that you lead marketing is not only to do marketing, I had to remind myself that I have to change the way I function every day and remind myself that it's not just marketing that I do at the company. So I just want folks To remember that as a takeaway, and I'll speak to the specifics in a moment,

Brandi Starr  05:03

Awesome, well, I know that, you know, the big initiative that you took on and created that alliance was moving or transitioning the company, from hardware to software. And so if you can just, you know, give our audience an understanding, give us kind of the backstory of what was the business objective, you know, how did you get started, like, give us kind of the lay of the land so that we know what happened. Sounds

Avnita Gualti  05:33

great, happy to do that. So we are a hardware company, traditionally, very successful, we create the market create the product, we've been very successful at doing it, and on top of that, have decided to layer on the software component of it for growth and profitability. And one of the initiatives that I was brought in the first professional marketing person on board of Jan 2023, was to kind of get an overlaying software and profitability on top of that. So that was my role. The objective was to launch our new corporate identity, launch our new platform, and create a new category. So those were kind of broad areas of responsibility. And then there are some details behind that that we deliver to this year.

Brandi Starr  06:31

Okay. And I know, um, the big thing was that you had, you know, this was obviously driven by the CEO, you know, as the primary leader of the organization, but that you all had an incredible Alliance in terms of what that vision was. And I do think that that alignment and that vision of like, what are we trying to accomplish as a business, whether it's something as large as moving into, you know, a new space and transforming the corporate identity, to even smaller initiatives that is so important. So, as this came up, how did you both start to build that alliance and really tackle this together on one accord?

Avnita Gualti  07:17

He, I think that part of together is so important. And I think it was mutual interest there in terms of making each other successful, for the growth of the company, right. So at the end of the day, we are here working to add value to the organization. So that was very clear. So there was no subjectivity, it was very clear what our objective was, and then giving us the clear direction in terms of, I appreciate the CEO having that very clear idea that you are the marketing expert, you make the decisions, I help you, you know, if there's any decision need from me, if you want me to evaluate, if you need me to sign off on things, I'm, I'm happy to be that sign of authority, but you are the decision maker in terms of marketing function. And he will give me the the freedom, the decision making power, the leverage the access, the ability to make those decisions, and give him the details behind it. So he can you know, if there's a point where he needs to say yea or nay, he has all the facts. So just empowering me as a marketer, as a leader to say you make the decisions, I'll sign off on it. And very early on, he established that he didn't want to appear as an expert in that area, he didn't want to come in and make the decisions for me, and right or wrong, the decisions were mind to make. So it just made it a lot easier for me to take ownership of it and feel empowered to march forward with his vision.

Brandi Starr  08:59

And I think you hit on, you know, with any sort of project, whether it's alignment with the CEO in your case, or alignment with your peers, in terms of others in the C suite, that conversation that you all had in creating those clear lines of responsibility and accountability and autonomy. I think that is really, really key. Because, you know, if I if I go back to the article that I mentioned, one of the things that that article really drove home was that there weren't these clear lines that, you know, many CEOs had a or have a perspective or opinion around what the role of their CMO is, and they believe that they are spot on habit, but only a small percentage of the actual CMOS would agree with the definition. And so to me, that kind of speaks to that disconnect where whereas in this scenario, it was very clear in where you should act on your own accord where you should pull him in. And you know, that's going to look different, there's going to be some CEOs that are more like, want their hands in the pot, so to speak. But I think no matter what the division of responsibility and accountability is, that conversation that you all had is kind of the key, you know, kind of that key anchor to being able to create that alliance 100%

Avnita Gualti  10:31

and asking the right questions, right. And it's always makes for a great conversation when you get good questions from the CEO. Right? I mean, he's evaluating your decisions is cross checking in terms of, do you have all the deeper and deeper as things progress as months progress projects progress, you can kind of see that getting deeper, and questions continued to kind of permeability, and and you're creating that, like you said, the alliances there, right, there's alignment, there's alliances, on that we're thinking about it the same way. And it gets over time, it gets a little bit more seamless. And I appreciate those questions, I think it's much needed to have those conversations, have those questions upfront, and as the time progresses, you know, it kind of gets less and less. And one of the things I've enjoyed at this company, which I think is so important for any marketer is to have that autonomy and access to people. Always an open door, literally, I can walk into a CEOs office for anything small or big, and got his attention, right, within a matter of seconds. He's like, Alright, how can I help you? Because he knows that I'm coming there for something important. And having that access, and then having the autonomy to make decisions goes a long way. I mean, he just has to look at me and say, You got this, you're good. My question is, would you like more information? He's like, No, I'm good. You're the specialist in this, you're the expert, you've got this. And then from there with that is just like, you know, it's just something different.

Brandi Starr  12:16

You know, and it sounds like you all have a great working relationship. And, you know, one of the things that I've talked about, you know, in multiple episodes, with an with other C CMOS, just in general, is that, like choosing a company that career progression, and things to look for when you are identifying that next role. And I think what you just hit on is something that I don't think people always pay attention to in, you know, you think about, okay, what is, you know, what's the salary? What are the options, you know, the big picture of the company, and some of those things that are always considerations, but who you're reporting into, and the way that the CEO, handles, you know, those on their team is a key, you know, it's a, it's a really key thing in terms of your own growth and success, longevity at the company. Because I've talked to so many people where their story is the opposite of yours, there is not the autonomy, there is not those clear lines of communication, etc. And so, I'd like to hear what do you think, was better easier about this project, as a result of that strong alliances, that, you know, may have been more difficult, taken longer than had been not as effective if that wasn't there?

Avnita Gualti  13:50

Yeah, I think to be able to walk in the room with peers, and be able to share the decision that I'm making, knowing that I have the backing of the CEO, knowing that I'm aligned with the vision of the CEO went a long way. Right, it gave me a voice on top of the expertise that I had to be able to articulate that and having those checkpoints. If there was any doubt in the room, or if there was skepticism, if this was going to, you know, read on board or not, I could always go back to him and say, okay, so what I'm sensing in the room is, you know, we're going too fast, or we got to do some more checks and balances, and to be able to validate with him that that's needed or not needed, was golden, because it could, it could go one of two ways. Like okay, let's look at it one more time, or should we get some people to sign up because this seems to be a very important milestone in change management that we need to double click on, or you know what, I think it'll be fine. Just let's keep moving forward. It might take longer for us to get everybody on board, then to go and execute and show what this new thing looks like, right? So getting that information to say we can't we have two paths to take, depending on the situation and then lean on me to make that decision to say, you tell me, which way should we proceed. And, to me, execution is important. We can't do you know, analysis paralysis just prevents us from moving forward. And that was the other thing that he and I were very aligned on is to say, let's not perfection, come in the way of good. So I had to remind myself that as he and I, you know, would have those checkpoints, to say, alright, what I, what we, what we are, what we might be going after is perfection from the sense that you got in the room, but I think we aligned on, you know, getting there at a good point, which I think is still fine. So let's not go chase perfection and waste time, let's go deliver. And that's all I needed. That's what I needed to go back and get things moving and execute. And as we all know that, you know, evolution is there, it'll come and we'll all iterate and get better, but let it not stop you from executing and executing on to the task. And sure enough, within six to eight months, we delivered a new corporate identity that was in the works previously, for two plus years.

Brandi Starr  16:19

Yeah, and you actually, that's a perfect segue into my next line of questioning, because I know you guys transitioned from hardware to software, you launched a new corporate identity, and you introduced a new platform, and you've only been with the company for a year, which means you've done all of this in under a year, which is like mind blowing. And so, you know, there's definitely a lot that has gone, right. And it sounds like some of these things had been in the works and stalled for quite some time. So talk to me a bit about like, what were some of those, you know, keys like things that you did things that you avoided, to be able to really get so much done and have such a huge transformation in such a short period of time?

Avnita Gualti  17:14

Yeah, no, I think it was not easy. But that goes back to the job of CMO is not just marketing. So taking risks was one of them, right to make decisions and say that we're going to move forward with this decision. And the benefit of doing this as opposed to not doing anything, outweighs it, right. So the benefit outweighs the cost of not doing it. So having that risk assessment and moving forward. We, the thing that stalled it previously was like I said, there was not a professional marketer. In this position, there was not a leader in this position. So that distinction between a doer and a leader was also a gap, right? The previous folks were good at executing, but leading the change required a different set of skills required a different sense of experience, and expertise. And that's where the role of marketing expands. And depending on again, talking to new CMOS when they go into that position, where it's either a privately held company, publicly, publicly traded company, or, you know, a founder led company, versus one that's on high growth path. These are all different kinds of companies. So you really have to get a sense of what you're getting into, and understand what what your role is in inspiring in terms of clearly define the vision. So inspiration is very important and driving that throughout the organization. So taking that vision, and having that point of articulating a vision in every decision. And every discussion you have just going back to pivoting back to or not pivoting back, going back to that vision and saying, Are we delivering to that, because many discussions that we had around the table. So we got the whole go to market team in the room sales, marketing, customer success and product. And we were going in circles we had really come down to we're here to deliver on this vision, are we on track. So we have to, you know, pull out some decisions and push forward with others, just to make sure we are executing to that vision vision. So inspiration and keeping that very clear was important. influencing decisions, be able to say okay, what are we really trying to accomplish here? Because there can be lots of roadblocks. You know, we're not, we're not there yet. Well, we need to do this before we get there. Well, let's, let's not have perfection come in the way of good, let's keep marching forward. Things are always gonna, you know, come along, and that's okay. The benefit of doing this outweighs the cost of not doing it. And then lastly, implementation. Keep showing this dewpoints keep executing, implementing month over month, checkpoints, milestones head. And we had to push out the date about a month and a half out. But those were all for good reasons we had a go no go across the organization. Because special, like I said is the first time there was a professional marketing leader on the job. So understanding what we're doing and how this is going to change, and transform and evolve, the company needed those checkpoints every month, to get to keep everybody on board, and not everybody was happy. And that's okay. Right, you can make a really happy, change is difficult. That's the other thing I aligned with the CEO was going back to him frequently saying, Alright, this is kind of another roadblock that's come in the way and doing that analysis, but also saying, reminding ourselves both of us that change is difficult. And it meant different things at different times. Honestly, that was kind of a growth. On my end, personally, I grew and that by learning, every time we talked about change is difficult. And there was a different scenario that was influencing that conversation. I was like, Oh, you're right, this is a change thing. It's not a corporate identity thing. It's not a platform launch thing, it's the mindset that people don't want to change is coming in the way of us moving forward. So I need to manage to that not the deliverable, not the quality of deliverable. But more. So the resistance to change is what I need to manage to.

Brandi Starr  21:27

And you hit on some really, really great points there. And I think it all falls under the umbrella of what you said in that you have come in as a marketing leader, with that leader being a key role, because I do agree completely, that, you know, to a certain extent, we all have to be doers at some point, like we got to get our hands dirty, and you know, get her done. But the primary role has to be as a leader, and as a leader, that is a change agent that is keeping everyone focused on you know, that vision that inspiration, you know, what are like making sure all of our decisions, the accountabilities, all those sorts of things tie back to what are we trying to accomplish as a business. And I do think sometimes, especially those that head marketing at smaller organizations, a lot of times you get trapped in the doing, and to your point, your predecessors weren't able to accomplish the same things from essentially being too much in the weeds, and not being able to be that change agent. So that is a really great lesson that you've learned. And then even, you know, for everyone listening, because you know, that good better than, you know, good is better than perfect, or, you know, Done is better than perfect. There's different versions of that saying, but sometimes you really do have to, like remind yourself of that. And having that, you know, leader, that CEO that is giving, you know, feeding you that same message as well, I think you know, has got to be like a key in staying consistent.

Avnita Gualti  23:13

They're also 100%. And evaluating that those decisions are the right decisions to make for the company. Right at the end of the day, we are delivering to the vision and the growth of the company. And those are pivotal, important decisions that need to be made at this point in time, and don't shying away from it and taking that risk. And I think just moving forward and multiple times, we had the discussion like we're going here, should we come back a few steps down? And the answer is no, you got to keep marching forward. You can't rethink this or pause and analyze and go into paralysis analysis. At this point, we're moving forward. And with that kind of mindset, you kind of you know, clear the path, you just keep your job is to clear the path and move forward and show those success metrics month over month.

Brandi Starr  24:03

Yeah, and that's another great point as well, because I do see, you know, working with a variety of different clients, I do see that there are some big initiatives that don't move forward. Because at a certain point there is that questioning decisions that are already made. So it's like wait, let's go back to that and revisit that. And, you know, it's really hard to like stand firm in that and say, You know what, we've got to move forward. And there will be a time to reflect and optimize and you know, like iterate but that we have to like that that keep marching forward. You know, the the analogy of the front, glasses large the rearview mirror is small, because you're only supposed to you know, glance behind you. Like that is another key lesson because I really think that you hit on a good point. This is a success story of being a change agent and having That alignment with your CEO to drive change, despite what the actual initiatives were

Avnita Gualti  25:08

100% Yeah. And I think, coming in as an expert and not, and it gets lonely, right, because you're the only ones only one sort of, say driving that change, are you executing to that change more closely than the rest of the folks, because you're, you're creating that corporate identity, you're creating that new category, and you're putting messaging behind it, and people are uncomfortable, and there is pushback, and you got to stand your ground and sit is the right thing to do. And it gets lonely, but I think, believe in yourself, if you're doing it for the first time, be more balanced out the door and the leadership apart. And you might second guess yourself, it'll feel uncomfortable for a day or two. But if you stay strong, and stay on point, you'll look back, and you'll be glad you made that decision to move forward.

Brandi Starr  26:04

And so my last question really touches on what you just said, because when you are that change agent, a, you know, at which I think Head of Marketing generally always is because marketing does tart touch so many parts of the business, there is always going to be friction on some level of you know, people that are hesitant on change, or you know, whatever the case may be, and so very curious. Because there's, you know, there's a different dynamic, you are driving an initiative forward, but then you're talking about having all the go to market leaders in the room. These are also your peers and counterparts. And so sometimes there is, you know, we hate, we all hate corporate politics, but there is, you know, there is a dynamics between, you know, relationships and people. And so when you are navigating that, what are your thoughts or advice on on how you maintain relationships, but also maintain that, you know, steadfast focus that you talk about on hitting the objectives and being successful in the initiative?

Avnita Gualti  27:14

Yeah, and I think it's a matter of partnership, it's rooted in partnership, if you always come across as a partner, to your peers, I think sooner or later, they will come around. Right and less sooner, more later. But that was hard, right? I had to stick to my plan, come across as a partner that's doing the right thing. And like you said, there's friction in the room in conversations and having that, that one person to go to, which was my CEO to check if this was the right decision, still was the right decision, lay the cards on what's causing friction. And the answer was one of two, which one of which was, let's see more data needs to be acquired and, and socialized. Or I think this is good, we don't have to sit on this for too long, the benefit of moving forward is more than the cost of just stopping in the middle right now. So it's not that big of a showstopper, let's keep moving forward. Or let's gather more data and get a read back in the room to really understand what the problem is. So again, you're still coming across as a partner, you're listening to them, you're giving them the benefit of doubt that they are the experts in their area. And they also mean the best for the company. However, and taking that input in documenting it, and saying yes, noted, the the risk of still moving forward is less than a stopping right now for these reasons. And not everybody's gonna say yes to that in the room. But you have that one person to go to who's got that vision that you're delivering to, right. And as a CEO, and others in the organization in their own areas of expertise. They also run into those situations. So their understanding of what I as a marketer, I'm delivering to the vision. And it's it's never easy, and they know that because they are leaders in their space as well.

Brandi Starr  29:20

And so I want to jump in and get advice. Because you know, talking about our challenges is just the first step and nothing changes if nothing changes. And so, in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but here at revenue rehab, we always flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. And so looking at this scenario, I think there's two places where the audience you know, normally ask for one, but I think there's two key things here. Your relationship with your CEO definitely sounds like a really strong alliance. And so my first takeaway would be What is your advice for someone who is trying to build a stronger alliance with the CEO? And the second is what is your advice for someone who is, is trying to be a stronger change agent within their peer organization? Because I do think those are two big wins that I see from this scenario, that I think our listeners would love to hear your takeaway?

Avnita Gualti  30:24

I'd love to share that. So I think if I forget the second question, please remind me. So with the CEO, I think what was very clear to me is, what is his vision? And how does he envision marketing, delivering to it? And really asking the question until you get your answer. And once it's given to you, as a leader, you got to sit back and think through it, because it's not going to be tactical, the input you're going to get is not going to be tactical. So you need to convert that in your head into what are the tactics that I needed to deliver to make this vision come true? And what is the role of marketing in that in kind of delivering that vision, right, so you got to take not just be able, don't feel the need to respond right away, take input, walk away, really break that down for yourself on and your team, and then jot it down and run it by the CEO, again, to say, here's what I heard you say, Does this align? Right, so that goes a long way. And in my case, as I said, the CEO already established that I'm the expert. So and he's not, he's like, I'm not a marketing expert, you've done it successfully, longer than I have in terms of marketing function, leadership, you go ahead and make those decisions. And just let me know when you when you want me to come in and help in any way. So that having that autonomy, and access gives you the responsibility to also align with him. And you might not get all the details, you will get the vision. And you will get how marketing can help. And then you walk away and kind of break it down for yourself and your team.

Brandi Starr  32:00

I think that is great advice, especially the going back to say, Okay, here's what I heard. And, you know, here's what I would plan to do with that. Because that does open up the opportunity for if you have misunderstood anything or whatever, it it gives that feedback loop so that you're not operating under an assumption of what you heard. So I think that, you know, having the conversation is so important, but that second piece of digesting it, thinking it through, and then going back and say, Okay, here's what I've heard, let's make sure we're on the same page. I think it is great. And then so the second thing was, you know, someone that's trying to be a change agent. And, you know, either they're starting a big initiative, or they're struggling in really driving change. What's your advice there?

Avnita Gualti  32:49

So breathing exercise, get a therapist. Um, so I think it's gonna be hard, it's not gonna be easy at all, by any means. The amount of stress I've had is, it's a new level. And, you know, you you doubt yourself sometimes, like, Am I making the right decisions? Is this the right thing to do? Do I need to check? You know, with more people and multiple times before we move forward, but I think giving yourself the benefit of doubt that you know what you're doing, and it's the right thing to do for the company, and that you have that alliance and confirmation from the CEO to move forward. You go remind yourself, when you go to the room again, or into any conversation, and keep pushing forward, please do not second doubt yourself. If you have that clarity, do not doubt yourself, because you're going to do yourself a disservice and your team a disservice because there'll be completely confused on why we are rethinking it right? So you owe that to your team and to your leaders to drive with that level of clarity. And again, it's gonna be very uncomfortable. And it's going to be a lot of friction, but you got to believe in yourself that you're doing the right thing. And you have no having the experience, you know what right looks like? Don't second doubt yourself by any means.

Brandi Starr  34:11

I love that. And I am definitely also on board with breathing exercises and therapy. I know you joked but you know, sometimes just taking that moment to truly whoosah You know, clear your mind that can help you to like really process, you know, do I need to step back like that second guessing like those breathing exercises really will like cut through that. So all amazing, amazing advice. I have enjoyed our discussions so so much. But that's our time for today. I'm so glad that you came back to the couch. And I'm really excited about your new role. And you know, I think you've got a great scenario that so many people dream of, in having those two leaders with one envision and having that you know that strong alliance with your CEO. Thanks

Avnita Gualti  35:05

so much brandy. I really enjoyed it. And I look forward to any further conversations and if anybody has any questions, please reach out.

Brandi Starr  35:11

Awesome. And you know, once the weather warms up a little bit, I'm gonna have to make it back out there to the west coast because we are definitely way overdue for a dinner.

Avnita Gualti  35:20

Counting on it. Awesome. 

Brandi Starr  35:23

Well, thanks, everyone for joining us today. I hope that you have enjoyed my conversation with F Anita, I can't believe we're at the end. We'll see you next time.

Outro VO  35:36

You've been listening to revenue rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenue rehab dot live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at revenue rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.